to think most women are still doing the majority of parenting?

I haven’t particularly seen women mocking men in the way you describe.

I do think you’re being dismissive of the hormonal, psychological and instinctive need of the mother to be close to the baby and vice versa. There is a reason for the first three months of a baby’s life being referred to as the fourth trimester.

When you’ve grown and birthed a whole human there are a great many biological and evolutionary factors involved that usually mean that in those first few weeks, particularly if breastfeeding, the father’s role is very different than the role he can take with, say, a 6 month old, a toddler, a young child. Decent men understand this and step up. Sadly many men do not, evidenced by the many threads in relationships on this very topic.

The parent/baby relationship is incredibly strong. I think what many men see as a rejection is the constant criticism and "no do it my way" about things that don't matter. It isn't about the mother's bond with the baby, it's where the mother actively prevents the baby bonding with the father because she feels she should control everything at all times.

You can see from the PP that there a lot of women (and I see them at work, mostly "indigenous" MC women) who think the dad should be like a skivvy, running around after them while they make all decisions and bond with the baby. Dad might get a cuddle while mum is otherwise engaged, but other than that, he should be waiting on mum hand and foot and taking her instructions on how to look after the baby.

They mock his efforts while he is learning. Criticise him to everyone, and then wonder why he loses confidence and eventually interest in fathering. Why? He is better off just waiting for his wife to order him to do something and then doing it or she will complain anyway.

I don't think many of these women have any special instinct when it comes to parenting. Many of them are pretty clueless about what it really entails because they've had very little contact with babies relatively speaking. There's no reason to think they'll know better than their men. They just have boobs to feed the baby if they so want.

They'd be much better off working as a team rather than playing the Super Mum and Main Parent over the long term.

Didn't you know, women are ultimately to blame for men's failings? The misogyny is strong isn't it?

Yes cooperation, but in the early days that should be in the form of changing nappies, supporting the mother, understanding that the mother/baby bond is incredibly strong and not seeing it as a rejection (which I’ve seen so many men do, and get jealous of the relationship).

I think part of the issue is the 'but a young child needs it's mother' narrative we see a lot of on here. There have been la number of threads about mothers who decide they want to take all the parental leave instead of splitting it with their husband and most people agree that they are fine to do this.

I'm not sure how we change this. More fathers working part time? We do have lots of fathers who work compressed hours at the council I work for.

No i totally disagree that the bulk of bonding has to be between mum and baby. If you feel this way, don't complain when mum ends up doing most infant care because you've set it up to go that way. If you want a co-parent, you have to cooperatively parent from day 0.

I'm a sahm so yes I do the majority of parenting overall since DH is at the office. But on holidays, mornings and evenings and at weekends we supervise one child each, and he always volunteers to take the toddler to the loo (I take the older child, who is much less work). He gets both dcs dressed and having breakfast in the mornings while I get myself ready, eats dinner and chats with the dcs every evening, and supervises homework, bath or playtime with one child while I look after the other one. Leaves work early one day a week to look after toddler while I ferry the eldest to a club, and attends every school play, assembly and parents evening.

What has made a big difference to be able to be so involved is having a short commute (10 mins by bike from a central London office). We didn't move out to the suburbs and inflict an hour + commute that would mean he would only be home for a bedtime story.

I disagree. When you’ve grown and birthed a baby there is a biological need for mother and baby to be a strong unit, it’s an evolutionary imperative in order to keep babies safe and alive.

For most women needing to be with their newborn isn’t a choice, it’s something that needs to happen. Fathers can play a different supportive role, but the bulk of the bonding at this time should be between mother and baby.

This is a point when many fathers switch off, I think maternity leave (or as some men seem to see it “a long holiday”) leaves many men jealous even though they can now access longer paternity leave. It also sets the standard that the mother does most of the housework and parenting, and even when mothers return to work this doesn’t often revert back to the pre-baby status quo.

I think my view is a bit contradictory. None of the Dads in my group of family and friends are like this. They all do share parenting and the kids are equally happy with either Mum or Dad. And when out together the kids go to either parent if they want something...there's no default going to Mum as standard.

I do agree there is also a huge group of people like your OP, though. I don't know why it is that one section of society has moved on and the other hasn't.

Having said this, I'm not sure I truly know many couples who are totally 50/50. And whilst I didn't particularly enjoy the early parenting days, I think that most of the women I know are more fulfilled by having children that their partners are and the women have a tendency to want to calm down their social life and be at home more than the men do. Might be controversial but its just my view.

I have one male relative who to the observer is the 'woman' in my scenario above...stays in a lot while wife goes out, seems to do more childcare and housework etc (think 65%/35% split, not extreme like the OP). It is commented on by other family members as being a bit unfair, despite the fact that it's the other way around for most couples in the family and that doesn't even occur to anyone to comment on.

Basing my opinion on families I know, I don’t know one family where the father is the default parent.
I know some where the fathers are more hands on than others, but none with an equal division of work, including plenty who claim that both parents equally parent.

My own H was hands on until things got tricky, then he retreated into the comfort of work whilst I managed the load. The split was a big shock to him 🙄

You do realise that having a traditional family setup isn't a crime? Nobody is forcing it on you.

I walk my dog at 9 am most weekend mornings. We live in a popular cycling area and i see countless men, (never wonen) out on their bikes. I always think there’s probably a Julia from motherland type mum back home running around after the kids…..

Although I was in a garden centre yesterday and a man had a newborn in a sling and got a well done from an older woman. I did wonder if the mum would have got a well done!

A lot of women make it clear they want it this way from the time they are pregnant and when the baby is newborn. It's when they become toddlers that they regret the choice.

A lot of women I've cared for use phrasing like "let" or "allow" to describe the times they've stepped aside for dad to do some of the daily tasks.

You can't have it both ways. You can't declare yourself as the person with the final say, and then expect equal co-parenting for the rubbish and gruelling bits. If you want a co-parent who feels like a co-parent, you have to accept their input into parenting choices.

cant say I have noticed this. It isn’t the case in my family or with any of my friends. It was like that when I was growing up in the 90s but in my experience not at all anymore.

Yes. In my experience Dh s get more involved as they get older and more fun and able to do the hobbies that the dh enjoys.

But the daily mental load, teaching manners, life skills, dealing with the emotions. Not so much!

Sad but true unfortunately. My ex has worked abroad for 7yrs our of our children’s childhood, earning lots of money whilst i’ve been left to do everything. He at least acknowledges it and tells the kids that they are only well adjusted, successful kids because of me.

I agree it’s probably the norm but luckily, not for me.
ExH and I share equal custody of our DC and it is honestly truly equal. In time, in money and in parenting standards. Our marriage may not have worked but he is a great dad, truly.
He even thinks it’s strange when he gets compliments for being so ‘hands on’ when he believes he is just doing the bare minimum.
I don’t have to worry about DC when they’re with their dad. We ‘cover’ for each other for holidays or occasional nights out. It works very well. I wish more people had this set up post divorce.

Mine does most of the parenting and brings in the higher wage. He has much more flexibility and a shorter commute than I do. He does most of the school runs and nursery drop offs, cooks and makes lunches 5 out of 7 days and has the kids for a full day every weekend, while I work. He does all the toddler bath times and 3 out of 7 bedtimes. He also does the majority of the laundry in the week. I do the rest of the bits and shopping.

I can't complain, and I'd like to say it's even balanced but it's not. He even does the nappy changes in the wild when we're out of the house. This morning, he's already made everyone breakfast, see to the kids getting dressed and has done all nappy changes. He's left me to relax and get ready slowly before we go out foe the day.

This works for us. And it swings in round abouts. If he's away for work then I do the everything and vice versa.

If he wants to do less, we have to get help in. He won't pay for something that we are both capable of working out. So he does what he does to help.

💯

Society allows him to get away with it.

Blaming individual women just feeds into the problem.

I’m a single parent, so maybe biased, but yes I see it a lot. No part of going on holiday makes me yearn to be in a relationship. Very often it seems like the mum does it all, and the dad enjoys the holiday. Or the dad is grumpy/ moody/ choosing to work instead.

I agree, I used to believe that women were considered equal and then I had kids. My friends’ partners are very much as you say and living stress free off their labour. However, my ex (albeit finding out he was a serial cheat and he’d given me an STI) is still a okay dad. Pays half of all expenses including nursery, school fees and holidays and takes 50% of all illnesses, sticks to his days etc. He’s brought no other woman into their lives as I haven’t with another man and takes them to sports and will happily change plans if I have to stay late at work or go away. The kids are with me for the majority of the time but they see both him and I doing 100 percent of parenting. We may not be together and actually dislike one another but in parenting we’ve always put them first. The rest has been a shit show!