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Original poster

Of course women will be safer

463 replies

HardyKoala · 20/04/2025 12:11

Following the Supreme Court ruling. I’m flummoxed by the amount of women I considered intelligent friends, posting rubbish about how women are actually no safer and this ruling is just anti-trans. I just don’t understand how intelligent women are coming to this conclusion.

The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.

Of course they will.

But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this. And this did happen, a few examples below.

They will no longer be able to enter women’s changing rooms and film teenage girls naked. They will no longer be able to enter the women’s toilets in Morrisons unchallenged and sexually assault a 10yr old girl. They will no longer be able to be housed in women’s prisons raping vulnerable women in the shower. This will all stop.

Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.

I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.

The amount of friends I’m seeing posting this rubbish has thrown me. I feel like I’m in an a weird alternate reality.

Of course women will be safer
OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Nameychangington · 21/04/2025 17:51

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 17:49

I acknowledged and responded to this this several pages back.

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I'm sorry, I thought we were only dealing inevidence, would you mind repeating the evidence that transwomen are not men, as I can't seem to see it? Thanks

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 17:49

Nameychangington · 21/04/2025 17:48

To be fair, you made the claim that transwomen aren't men, and I haven't seen any evidence for that

Show quote history

I acknowledged and responded to this this several pages back.

Nameychangington · 21/04/2025 17:48

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 17:39

You’re really missing the point. If someone is making claims it is up the them to produce the evidence, why should I have to go and dig it out? People are content making claims without easily accessible demonstrable evidence?!

Read back further and you will see that I was called privileged. It makes no odds to me, but everyone is missing the point. My point is that rather than give evidence or have informed discussion, the push back is always “go find the evidence yourself / some random insult / use your common sense”

Up to now I haven’t even mentioned bathrooms! You have all assumed I have. The reality is that trans inclusive policy has not led to increased crime in public spaces. Trans women are more likely to be victims of violence and harassment. The evidence is there, go find it (I would typically provide it but seeing as we’re all capable of doing our searches - go ahead). That being said, there is clearly and absolutely a need for proper safeguarding policy particularly in prisons, domestic and sexual abuse survivors and so on. I fully support that. Perceived and actual risks are also important to consider, and the damage that’s being done to the trans population through some of the rhetoric and discussion being spouted on the topic is dangers and minimising the experiences of one group over another.

To be fair, you made the claim that transwomen aren't men, and I haven't seen any evidence for that

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 17:39

You’re really missing the point. If someone is making claims it is up the them to produce the evidence, why should I have to go and dig it out? People are content making claims without easily accessible demonstrable evidence?!

Read back further and you will see that I was called privileged. It makes no odds to me, but everyone is missing the point. My point is that rather than give evidence or have informed discussion, the push back is always “go find the evidence yourself / some random insult / use your common sense”

Up to now I haven’t even mentioned bathrooms! You have all assumed I have. The reality is that trans inclusive policy has not led to increased crime in public spaces. Trans women are more likely to be victims of violence and harassment. The evidence is there, go find it (I would typically provide it but seeing as we’re all capable of doing our searches - go ahead). That being said, there is clearly and absolutely a need for proper safeguarding policy particularly in prisons, domestic and sexual abuse survivors and so on. I fully support that. Perceived and actual risks are also important to consider, and the damage that’s being done to the trans population through some of the rhetoric and discussion being spouted on the topic is dangers and minimising the experiences of one group over another.

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 21/04/2025 17:34

Im amazed someone who thinks TW aren’t men is so hell bent on an evidence base and informed discussion. Do YOU have evidence that TW are women?

this

i like the Chesterton fence thing…

Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up". This quote, attributed to G.K.Chesterton, emphasizes the importance of understanding the rationale behind established practices before attempting to change or remove them

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2025 17:30

I was the one who called @batsandeggs privileged, because I think it takes a level of privilege to have not really considered the impact of men entering women's spaces on womem prisoners, domestic abuse survivors and so on.

The poster kept asking in what sense she was more safe since the ruling - and I pointed out that there were plenty of privileged women who probably wouldn't feel much difference - the impact would be more on women the women I referenced above.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 17:24

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:59

Where have I said anyone is wrong? The Fair Play for Women website referenced The Times article by the way, which is behind a paywall. I’ve seen and acknowledged the second article (on GRA reforms). All the while I’ve been called privileged and whiney. I’m here for evidence based and informed discussion. You can all continue with the emotive language and rhetoric, making assumptions about all women. Power on.

Show quote history

Someone has told you how to easily get past a paywall and you CBA - I’m really not sure what much else you want.

Im amazed someone who thinks TW aren’t men is so hell bent on an evidence base and informed discussion. Do YOU have evidence that TW are women?

Also nobody called you privileged. I asked if you were going to whine even if presented with the facts, as i got that vibe and still do - you’ve been given the facts and have nothing to say on them. You seem to be very hypersensitive

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:59

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 16:34

Actually you’ve been quite rude and demanding, all whilst telling us that we are wrong and TW are not men - you’ve demanded evidence from us then proclaimed that you CBA copying and pasting something into a URL to read it, but you’ve offered no evidence yourself that TW are “not men”. It’s not a polite way to converse on a chat thread.

Show quote history

Where have I said anyone is wrong? The Fair Play for Women website referenced The Times article by the way, which is behind a paywall. I’ve seen and acknowledged the second article (on GRA reforms). All the while I’ve been called privileged and whiney. I’m here for evidence based and informed discussion. You can all continue with the emotive language and rhetoric, making assumptions about all women. Power on.

SternJoyousBee · 21/04/2025 16:48

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 10:38

I’m asking for the evidence which shows I will now be safer following the Supreme Court’s judgement. Where is the evidence that I was unsafe prior to the ruling? As per OP’s observations.

Show quote history

I will repeat a post from upthread which I didn’t tag you into:

Op did not specifically state that we are safer due to the exclusion of Transwomen.

“The main argument seems to be that men will be men and will still rape and assault.
Of course they will.
But now, they can no longer just assert ‘I am a woman’ and automatically be able to enter women’s spaces unchallenged to do this.”

this would cover all men irrespective of whether they genuinely believe that they are women or not

“Yes, I do understand the negative impact on a few trans women and I feel for them, but why should ALL women put themselves and their daughters at risk for this tiny minority? I just don’t get it. If you’re campaigning for anything, campaign for 3rd spaces surely? But don’t campaign to allow any man the right to enter women’s spaces.
I have no issue with trans people in any way (I know a few) but I just can’t understand this argument that all women should be more at risk. Of course most trans women aren’t a threat. But men pretending to be women for access to women ARE a threat. And this ruling makes it harder for them to rape and assault us.”

she is talking about ALL men and not singling out transwomen who are of course in reality, and confirmed in law in respect to single sex spaces, men.

SternJoyousBee · 21/04/2025 16:43

The risk will come from militant TRAs who will stage incidents in women’s toilets to bully us.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 16:34

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:23

Prior to my last post directly to you, I’ve made no indication of my views on the topic. Why does everyone I’m asking for evidence immediately start insulting me? No one here can have a debate without letting their emotions influence them? incredible stuff.

Show quote history

Actually you’ve been quite rude and demanding, all whilst telling us that we are wrong and TW are not men - you’ve demanded evidence from us then proclaimed that you CBA copying and pasting something into a URL to read it, but you’ve offered no evidence yourself that TW are “not men”. It’s not a polite way to converse on a chat thread.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 16:32

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:15

Incorrect. One person linked ‘evidence’ and the article that was linked referred to an article published in The Times, which is behind a paywall so the stats and data can’t be referenced or interrogated. Before your response, one person has given me a link. You have now provided a link to the research relating to GRA reforms (which I was aware of), and I appreciate something being provided amongst a sea of other people making assumptions about me and my personal lived experience. I’m not privileged and nor have I been immune so violence perpetrated by men. I don’t base my beliefs off emotive rhetoric and assumptions about specific groups of people. No one has actually asked for my own views (which, by the way, are not black and white and I do believe in single sex spaces particularly in places like prisons). But the response to a simple question like asking for evidence demonstrates perfectly why this issue is so polarising. You need to be open to people having open and real discussion on the topic, to them asking questions and understand different perspectives - everyone here has jumped on the defence instead of answering my very straight forward questions.

Edited
Show quote history

Incorrect. Did you miss the post linking to the Fair Play for Women website? I think you’ve got confused as not one person on this thread has posted a link to a Times article.

I don’t think anyone has made assumptions about you either or your lived experience? But this thread is about the lived experience of women who want sex segregated spaces away from men And for good reason. Imagine the men who have been violent towards you being able to share a female only space with a vulnerable woman. How does that make you feel?

Women here are jumping on the defence because this thread isn’t the first instance of us being told to STFU and accept men into our spaces (not referring to you BTW) or have been slightly gaslighted into believing that men in dresses aren’t the problem (kind of does refer to you and the obtuseness of your “how on earth will we be safer, prove it” question). Some of us have spent over a decade invested in this, following this topic, having to read YET AGAIN about another woman raped or harmed by a TW in a space that TW shouldn’t be in - all in parallel to being told we are transphobes, bigots, TW are real women, threatened with violence doxxing, police action and reporting to our employers, and the onus is on us to make room for our oppressors. We are fed up of the same tedious baseless arguments, the same feeble attempts at a “gotcha”, the same thinly veiled attempts to tell us it’s all a fuss about nothing. We are fed up of being attacked by people who don’t even know a modicum of knowledge we do regarding this subject, and ultimately we are fed up of the lack of respect shown in these threads for women.

letsallchant · 21/04/2025 16:31

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:15

Incorrect. One person linked ‘evidence’ and the article that was linked referred to an article published in The Times, which is behind a paywall so the stats and data can’t be referenced or interrogated. Before your response, one person has given me a link. You have now provided a link to the research relating to GRA reforms (which I was aware of), and I appreciate something being provided amongst a sea of other people making assumptions about me and my personal lived experience. I’m not privileged and nor have I been immune so violence perpetrated by men. I don’t base my beliefs off emotive rhetoric and assumptions about specific groups of people. No one has actually asked for my own views (which, by the way, are not black and white and I do believe in single sex spaces particularly in places like prisons). But the response to a simple question like asking for evidence demonstrates perfectly why this issue is so polarising. You need to be open to people having open and real discussion on the topic, to them asking questions and understand different perspectives - everyone here has jumped on the defence instead of answering my very straight forward questions.

Edited
Show quote history

I posted a link at 12.23 and it wasn't to a Times article. Did you miss that? You said one person had given a link so I'm confused about which post you mean.

DarkForces · 21/04/2025 16:31

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:23

Prior to my last post directly to you, I’ve made no indication of my views on the topic. Why does everyone I’m asking for evidence immediately start insulting me? No one here can have a debate without letting their emotions influence them? incredible stuff.

Show quote history

Take a look at Twitter if you want to see a proper mantrum. Tell a trans woman no and the male aggression comes out.

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:23

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:20

I mean you’ve been given evidence but are you gonna bother to take it in and listen? Or just whine about the poor menz and toilets?

Show quote history

Prior to my last post directly to you, I’ve made no indication of my views on the topic. Why does everyone I’m asking for evidence immediately start insulting me? No one here can have a debate without letting their emotions influence them? incredible stuff.

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 16:15

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:19

People have given you evidence. Why are you pretending they haven’t?

Show quote history

Incorrect. One person linked ‘evidence’ and the article that was linked referred to an article published in The Times, which is behind a paywall so the stats and data can’t be referenced or interrogated. Before your response, one person has given me a link. You have now provided a link to the research relating to GRA reforms (which I was aware of), and I appreciate something being provided amongst a sea of other people making assumptions about me and my personal lived experience. I’m not privileged and nor have I been immune so violence perpetrated by men. I don’t base my beliefs off emotive rhetoric and assumptions about specific groups of people. No one has actually asked for my own views (which, by the way, are not black and white and I do believe in single sex spaces particularly in places like prisons). But the response to a simple question like asking for evidence demonstrates perfectly why this issue is so polarising. You need to be open to people having open and real discussion on the topic, to them asking questions and understand different perspectives - everyone here has jumped on the defence instead of answering my very straight forward questions.

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:25

Fingernailbiter · 21/04/2025 15:21

Your ridiculous "by extension" invalidates your point (which was silly in the first place).

Edited
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I’m honestly mortified for people saying this. Nothing has changed. Before this self ID nonsense went mainstream no one was expected to prove their sex, and the exact same act with exact same wording was in place as it is now.

Honestly the handmaidening going on is depressing. Where the support for the raped women? So much sadness for colonisers that are men and not a word about the women (and children) who’ve had their lives destroyed because TRAs decided to wrongly interpret the law their own way

Fingernailbiter · 21/04/2025 15:21

FebruaryUsername · 20/04/2025 12:32

Women are now going to be put on situations where they have to prove they are biologically female to claim the protections that we are entitled to. For example, several police force have now said that male police officers will strip search trans women (and by extension, any woman they think is trans who doesn't happen to be carrying her birth certificate to prove that she was female at birth).

Your ridiculous "by extension" invalidates your point (which was silly in the first place).

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:20

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:11

Sorry, your response is nonsensical and bizarre. I am making zero claim that trans women should be treated differently. The OP has said ‘of course women are safer’ - I’m asking for evidence to prove that to me. If you want people onside (assuming I am not) surely you’d provide that? Why on earth wouldn’t you?

It’s not up to me to provide any evidence whatsoever. I’m not here making any claims. I’m asking you all to help me understand your viewpoint. So far no one is. You’ve done a fair job insulting and dismissing my own lived experience though!

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I mean you’ve been given evidence but are you gonna bother to take it in and listen? Or just whine about the poor menz and toilets?

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:19

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 12:00

“They offend at least the same rates as other men…”

Evidence please.

Also, again, like everyone else in this thread, you are using emotive language and misjudging me as privileged (and so dismissing my actual and plentiful negative experiences with men). I am simply just asking for evidence to support your claims about trans women. How many of the 99% of male offenders identify as trans women?

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People have given you evidence. Why are you pretending they haven’t?

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:17

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:49

You’re presupposing my views. The OP has stated that as a female I’ve woken up safer because trans women now can’t enter single sex spaces. I’m asking for evidence relating to trans women specifically to demonstrate that I was ever unsafe. Is it because ‘trans women are men’ ? Is that it?

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In a nutshell: yes

Transwomen are men and are part of the group that oppress and pair a danger to women. Ergo women can enjoy female only spaces without the presence of their oppressors.

Its really not rocket science

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:16

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:47

Alright, if you want to say that trans women are men - of the 0.5% of trans people in the UK, how many of the 99% of male offenders (previously quoted by someone else) identify as trans women?

225

As of 2023

70% of transwomen in prison are there for sex crimes.

You’re welcome

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-to-2023/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-23#transgender-prisoners

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2022-23

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-to-2023/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-23#transgender-prisoners

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:10

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:40

Also, very amusing that an article to ‘prove’ the claims was provided but the data used in that article is inaccessible because it’s behind a paywall. Would suggest to me that people are reading blindly without interrogating the data… fascinating.

Edited

The Fair Play for Women website is not behind a paywall?

JandamiHash · 21/04/2025 15:09

batsandeggs · 21/04/2025 11:28

The Times article referenced in the link you sent is the source of the data and that article is behind a paywall. It’s not my job to go searching for the evidence, I’m asking the people making the claims (that I’m safer because trans women can’t access single sex spaces) to supply the evidence. Also, for information, that times article is the only one that’s whipped out when making claims like this. Anything more recent? Anything other than just one single source?

Remember that I’m asking for evidence regarding trans women. Not men. Trans women. You may not agree that trans women are not women, but they are not men. They are trans women. I’m asking for evidence regarding trans women specifically. How many of the 99% of male offenders are trans women? I’ll engage when someone can provide reliable evidence.

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You may not agree that trans women are not women, but they are not men.

What makes them not men?
Evidence has been posted numerous times on here. Did you miss it?

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