If a patient requests same sex care and a doctor lies to them and performs intimate care, that should be a sex crime

@SernieBanders please do object.

It is your thread Sernie. I don't think us complaining will do anything at all.

@SernieBanders You might want to report one of your posts and ask that this thread be moved back to AIBU.

They have again moved it to FWR. Someone on AIBU really doesn't like to see your threads.

This discussion has now followed another discussion topic that recently came up . Sex by deception. And when consent is given and when has it been negated.

Easily done. Especially on the app

You do understand about informed consent?

You understand the reasons some may have for not wanting an exam by someone of the opposite sex?

You are right, it may not be possible to provide it, but informed consent means that it is discussed with the patient and that patient has the right to refuse care. Or an alternative can be worked around - chaperone etc.

It's a basic part of informed consent. And most medical professionals would have zero issue with it, in fact, most would offer at least a chaperone if an intimate exam - protects them as well as the patient.

The point of the legitimate discrimination that is supported for the needs of the person asking, is sex.

It is not gender.

What your argument does is to conflate the two. And if it turns out that to uphold the legitimate discrimination is not possible with the current policies, then what that shows us is that the policies always failed to protect the needs of the people it needed to protect.

If anyone genuinely thinks that a patient has to ask for a person who doesn't have a gender identity when they are asking for a same sex health care provider, I think that probably is rather an important point. That the policy has become all about supporting activism and not the people that need to be protected.

So, thanks for this post.

Tell that to dr Upton as he has specifically said he's a biological female. And said he would treat a patient who specifically asked for a female, although if the patient subsequently said they didn't want treated by him, he would then leave and get another doctor.

Sorry it was another poster who said the first para, it was a quote fail on my part. Mine is the second para, responding.

Full stops are a thing, you know. As is the ability to request same sex care, if possible, for particular examinations.

Informed consent is only informed if the information is clear and truthful.

In all honesty, in most cases I wouldn't care ie broken arm in a & e, I don't give a toss who examines me, x rays me or stuffs me in a stookie.

In case of intimate exams or personal care, I want to be allowed to express discomfort and ask for someone else, and I can't do that if Burly Barry insists he's Fragile Felicity.

Tell that to dr Upton as he has specifically said he's a biological female. And said he would treat a patient who specifically asked for a female, although if the patient subsequently said they didn't want treated by him, he would then leave and get another doctor.

I'm always amazed* that TRSOH are so forgetful of the needs of abused women or people with less up-to-the-minute language skills or those with cognitive difficulties or patients in pain/distress.

*not amazed

@jollyhockeysticks way to miss the whole point. And what if you ask for a female nurse chaperone and they too are a man wearing lipstick?

All women deserve dignity, respect, consideration and safety not just those who can afford private healthcare.

You're missing the point

If you want a same sex doctor then you can go private and pay for it you are lucky to have the NHS I think if you broke both your legs and were in hospital you would be grateful you certainly won't be able to demand a certain nurse or doctor, I have friends who are nurses and do long hours and an amazing job, there isn't the staff let alone some one clicking their fingers and demanding a certain doctor and actually you could have said no or that you wanted a nurse in the room too,

Well done for completely missing the point

If I say I want a female HCP then I believe that is clear. If I receive a letter saying a service is female only I believe that is clear. It's not me who's muddied the waters here.

Like some others, I also don't particularly care about a male doctor attending to me. But I realise that I am in a specific position of never having been sexually abused or assaulted, not religious etc etc, and I don't speak for any other woman, only for myself.

I would have a huge problem with a doctor, or any other HCP, who is a man pretending to be a woman however good or poor their costume is. I would find it inappropriate, unserious, sinister and disrespectful. Even more so with a male doctor who claims ludicrously to be a "biological woman", or a nurse who says they think there is no way to tell the difference between male and female, because such a person is either lying or monumentally stupid and undereducated, and not fit to practice either way.

It's hard to believe that this is even being aired in a serious court.

When I’ve seen a male Dr for issues with my breasts they have always waited for a female chaperone to come along before examining me. This has sometimes been a nurse or if no nurse is available then it’s been a member of the receptionist team. I would still expect a female chaperone if the Dr or nurse was male transitioning to female. If they declared themself as female and not needing a chaperone then I would not be comfortable being examined.
I stand with Sandie.

If you want a same sex doctor then you can go private and pay for it you are lucky to have the NHS I think if you broke both your legs and were in hospital you would be grateful you certainly won't be able to demand a certain nurse or doctor, I have friends who are nurses and do long hours and an amazing job, there isn't the staff let alone some one clicking their fingers and demanding a certain doctor and actually you could have said no or that you wanted a nurse in the room too,

I think it's just luck of the draw regarding hospital set up. The whole clinic was female only. No male partners even allowed beyond a certain point either from memory. I'm not sure where a 'transwoman' would fit*

*They clearly shouldn't be there

You expect a person to understand that a group of people have their own definitions of common use language, and that they, as a patient in pain and very ill, need to understand that specific language so that they can consent properly. Even though they are using the commonly understood meanings as understood by the population of that area.

And you think that if the person is successfully deceived, that that is all the matters. Not the harm that is then done to the person upon finding out that their needs were so summarily dismissed.

Do you really think this?

A man, like Upton, who says he is female is a liar.