If a patient requests same sex care and a doctor lies to them and performs intimate care, that should be a sex crime

You accept there are going to be some women that aren’t going to want you treating them due to you being a biological man, and there are some who will/don’t mind.

What you don’t do is insist to those women you are actually a woman and that if they don’t go along with this they are hateful bigots.

Can I just add, I don't see why the perpetrator's jollies would be required to define it as sexual assault? We're always told that the various non-hate identity virtual offences are defined by the perception of the victim not by the intent of the offender. Why would that suddenly be switched in the case of a doctor deceiving a patient in a face-to-face actual physical situation?

I mean, perhaps it's because I'm an old prude on the Wrong Side of History, but if I'd asked for a female practitioner to do my smear and a male person insisted on sticking the speculum in, I'd feel extremely damn sexually assaulted, whether he got off on it or not.

They are deceiving people in order to see and touch intimate parts of their body

This is where I have the problem. Why is this the only conclusion to draw ? Why can it not be a trans HCP just tying to do their job ? Not saying for a second that deception is right, but if you’re trans and an HCP how on earth do you reconcile the two ?

It's plain and simple deception. A man cannot become a woman and vice versa. Should he choose to live his version of what he thinks a woman is that's fine, but don't lie to others when they say they want a woman doing an intimate examination. He's a man. He's also a liar. That's sexual assault since none consensual touch.

And this is the crux of the matter. NHS can’t always provide what is requested. They don’t always have the resources. But that doesn’t mean that they can engage in what is basically deception.

And that is your opinion and their opinion. You and others don't get to decide where someone posts, the poster of the thread has a large say in the matter.

If someone doesn't have the impulse control to scroll past a thread that they don't want to read or participate in, why should MNHQ and other posters curate a board especially to suit those people.

And why is it that a discussion that you might not personally like be removed. You genuinely do not have to participate.

This is a significant issue that a current court case has highlighted, the OP wanted to discuss it so posted about it. There were plenty of people who were interested in the discussion and were participating and then it got moved. Just because you, personally, don't want to discuss it is irrelevant on a public discussion board.

And is there a reason that you don't think that women want to discuss whether they feel it is ethical for their requests for same sex carers to be dismissed by an individual or an organisation.

Absolutely. Personally I have no problem with most gynae or obstetrics procedures by males, but I will not have a smear done by a man ever again after the first experience (awful), or a mammogram. Neither would I have accepted a male/trans midwife showing me how to breastfeed.

But I defend the right of other women to request women only care and for the ‘woman’ to actually be a woman.

What's the problem with having a conversation in a place dedicated for that type of discussion?

Do you have a problem with raising awareness among women in general of NHS policies and their effect on consent, privacy and dignity?

Women in general on Mumsnet, not just those who read the FWR board?

If so, why?

There are boards dedicated to the majority of stuff posted on AIBU, do you post the same
on them?

Many women want to discuss how ‘gender wars’ are harming women and girls and the negative impact on women’s rights. It’s quite an important topic to some and shouldn’t be tucked away in the naughty corner as viewed by some.

It’s pretty obvious from the title of a thread what it’s about, you aren’t obliged to open or comment. It’s pretty easy to scroll on by. I
manage it with many.

Thanks for moving it back MNHQ!

Lots of people don't like seeing "the gender wars" rehashed over and over on AIBU because they dislike the type of arguments it brings out again and again.

There is a board dedicated to this stuff. Lots of users have that board hidden because we're sick of it. It would be nice if the gender wars could stay on the gender board where it is easily avoidable by the people who are sick of it but still easily findable for the people who want to engage with it.

What's the problem with having a conversation in a place dedicated for that type of discussion?

I wonder if the people thinking that it doesn't matter if someone lies about their sex and they don't notice also thought it was a big fuss about nothing when trainee clinicians used to routinely practice pelvic examinations on women who were under general anaesthetic for other procedures. They didn't tell these women. No harm no foul hey?

I couldn’t agree with you more. I haven’t been following this case but cannot believe what I am reading

It's about informed consent FFS. If I ask for a female doctor I expect either a female doctor or to be told one isn't available so I can make an informed choice. I do not expect some bloke pretending he's a woman.

Oh and the "new women" competing in womens sports has given me such a rage I actually don't know where to put it.

I feel so sorry that it appears the movement has been hijacked.

I know of several friends whom have hard swerved mixed schools because of this issue.
Strictly all girls school for them now, previously they would havd been very pro mix.

My girls are in a private all girls school and I am so grateful that this is at least one item of woke bullshit they won't have to deal with.
Strangely enough although they are very outspoken on most things, they are hzppy to be in an all girls school.

So no empathy for rape and assault victims at all? What a lovely person you are.

Just wanted to add that of course I am only saying I wouldn't mind. I cannot speak for other patients.

There was a poll, presumably that's gone by the wayside?

How is this not an issue that should be widely discussed on AIBU?