Is it a society/systemic problem or an individual’s problem?

As someone who works in horticulture and gardening why on earth is that the go to suggestion here?

I'm not saying it's not a viable option for someone ND; but why is everyone saying it?

I think though there has always been specialisms that attract neuro untypical people. I don't want to stereotype people but I've worked with or met quite a lot of tech bros, data specialists, scientists, academics, economists and accountants who were clearly on the spectrum.

I think people (everyone - not specifically ND people) need a huge amount of drive to get into 'dream careers'. There's definitely too much guff talked at school about following your dreams and 'you can do anything if you want if enough'. Hmmm. Not really.

When I was teaching and trying to urge some of the cheekier, unmotivated boys to put some work in so that they could pass their GCSEs, some of them would tell me they didn't need to because they were going to be footballers. I'm afraid I was a bit of a cow and replied 'Oh - which junior team are you signed to?'. The dopey twits didn't realise that, if you're going to be a professional footballer, you've probably been talent spotted by top primary school.

So many aspects of modern life have put children off everyday jobs - the influence of social media and the horrors of celebrity culture mean that they look down on good careers which actually pay pretty well! Let's face it - copmpetent tradesmen make a very good living indeed.

I work with a lot of young people (MH) and have had a few who are employed at McD. While I hate their food, all my clients have told me that it is a really understanding and supportive place to work. They seem to be very good with ND people.

It's a really tricky area because I think this comes down to the accommodations that should be made for individuals. Where is the line and when does it become unrealistic?

Most of us (NT or ND) would like an interesting and fulfilling job that plays to our strengths and interests? Current stats on job satisfaction would suggest that very few of us have one. The reality is that most jobs are mundane, difficult and stressful. Everyone needs to be realistic that this is what your career will be most likely be like too. It is not a reasonable adjustment to expect society to allocate all the exciting, interesting jobs to ND people whilst everyone else has to do all the other jobs. I think managing expectations with all young people about what careers and working life is actually like would probably save a lot of disappointment.

YANBU at all. “You can be anything you want to be” is a nice but unhelpful thing to tell children and can lead to this sort of outcome. Most jobs have good and bad bits, most people don’t get to be too picky.

Only 29% of autistic people are in full time work. Many of the 71% out of work could work and most likely want to but have so many barriers preventing them from doing so. Some profoundly affected individuals obviously cannot work and never will.

Most working environments are set up for neurotypical people and actively work against autistic people. There is huge resistance to doing things differently or even just trying different things. It is incredibly difficult. There’s still a huge lack of awareness and understanding around autism out there and it permeates every single corner of society.

There should be more support and flexibility given to autistic employees to enable them to work in the first place but also to harness and play to their strengths. In the right environment, with the right support, many autistic people will absolutely thrive and reward employers with loyalty and high levels of productivity.

This has very little to do with why ND young people aren’t in work.

I’d have loved to be a dancer but I have no natural talent for it and am not the right personality to put up with constant rejection and the harshness of the industry. This is often the problem too. I can’t blame society for that. YANBU OP. People getting jobs they are passionate about is down to a combination of determination and natural talent and the right personality for that sector.

I heard the piece and had similar thoughts, although more about how we are misleading our young people if we tell them that they should expect to have a job in an area they feel passionate about.

Why lie? The vast majority of people do not work in their area of passion, they work to earn money to pay bills. We shouldn’t be pretending that “sailing” or similar passions are a career option open to any but the lucky few (there was a later piece about an inner city teen who had been given amazing opportunities in sailing, but one of the struggles was funding/living costs).

There are few pathways for bright ND youngsters( even those with EHCPs)endlessly waiting for mental health treatment, missing so much school.

There's pretty limited training available for young people with ND.

As others have said, it is often provided by charities (so not state provided education) and is focused on one or two pathways - horticulture is often one, a place near me runs a bicycle maintenance store with placements there in the repair/IT/customer service sections.

People are funded through university or BTECs but actual vocational training is pretty thin on the ground these days. If you don't have the gcse passes for either the uni route or BTECs there's not a lot out there.

Obviously some people with ND are very bright but there is a reasonably big group of people who have autism or adhd with learning disabilities. For that group there is a lack of vocational pathways.

The interviewer sounds really ignorant. Focused interests is a small part of ND and traits need to have a big impact on life to get a diagnosis.ND youngsters are also coping with severe depression, extreme anxiety, repetitive behaviours such as (pacing, self harm, phrases), social difficulties, fixed mindset, additional ND such as dyspraxia, ADHD etc. They can’t just switch it all off hence having a diagnosis and many are waiting for treatments, support and medication.

McDonalds is frankly the last place young people like this should be in.

I agree.

I do think there's a wider social issue about the unrealistic expectations of younger people. It's multifactorial - the fact that very few young people can do the sort of early jobs we all did any more, the fact that many young people have mobile phones and other high value items from young that they didn't have to work for, the fact that COL means that even quite decent wages seem hopeless in terms of quality of life, that fact that buying a house is impossible unless financially assisted, making saving feel pointless etc etc.

That said, that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be additional support and reasonable adjustments made for those with disabilities/differences. It is really important that we don't alienate or exclude those with lots to give of given the right support and setting.

I have a relative who absolutely cannot work in any other way than for themselves. But they do that and earn well, working hard etc.

Thanks. It's up and down tbh. He seems to enjoy kitchen work but my worry is that it's been in a controlled, managed environment so far. He's working in the kitchens belonging to the college of his SEND course. If you chucked him into a pressured environment like McDonalds or a pub kitchen during high peak traffic I don't think he'd cope.

This is a common BBC problem-interviewing people who are not qualified to be interviewed on a particular topic.

There's actually another thread today that's even more bat-shit..Calling all biological - cis - women. Could we all stop raping each other please? (BBC Radio 4) | Mumsnet

I think doing different jobs when you are younger is helpful because it gives you an idea of what things you enjoy and what things you absolutely couldn’t put up with long term.
I did lots of jobs when I was younger- I worked Saturdays and Sundays all through my degree, took on cafe work during holidays for extra income. I did a couple of office jobs (not for me!)

I am autistic and have found that being self employed is the best way to go for me. I enjoyed my time as a teacher but there were a lot of aspects that I found challenging and I’m not sure I would have wanted to do that until retirement age. Office jobs and the normal 9-5 are not for me, but I wouldn’t have known quite how much I struggled with this until I tried it.

The only thing I didn’t want to try was bar work because I have double hearing people and communicating in busy places like pubs and bars due to my inability to block out background noise. I don’t even socialise in those places so working there would not have been for me.

I think any young person needs to be willing to get out and do different jobs while they either train or decide what they want to do. You gain so much more confidence which stands you in good stead for later life.

I hope your sons scheme is going well. I think we are going to pick the horticulture option, but he actually wants to work with animals but there isn't a pathway for that locally.

It seems so annoying that they put support in but only for a very specific set of roles. It wouldn't cost more to support a child into something they would prefer.

I also recognise the lack of sucking it up and forward thinking compared to NT sibling.

This is true. My autistic DS is on one of these schemes. Luckily he quite likes outdoors work and food prep but those are mostly his only choices (charity shop was the other).

The biggest barrier he faces compared to my NT children is that he has a much lower tolerance for 'sucking it up' in the face of demanding, unsatisfactory jobs or circumstances.

In the same vein as the years of school refusal we went through he will just vote with his feet rather than put up with a sensory overload or a situation that feels uncomfortable. His ability to be forward thinking is very lacking, he lives in the moment where as his NT brother is able to look into the future and see something as a stepping stone to better things, therefore worth putting up with in the short term.

If he found his niche he'd probably stay doing it for the next 50 years but realistically this only happens for a very small number of autistic people.

It's both, really. The young person you heard on the radio has unrealistic expectations about work. Most people work because we need the money. Very few of us are passionate about our jobs.

But also, many existing jobs are structured in ways that make them unsuitable for ND people. Disability discrimination is a real thing.

As a young person I (NT) was able to work pt in hospitality, study for my desired career and do voluntary/experience stints. It was hard - I barely slept and had no down time. I’m not sure that’s an option for young ND people. I suspect the hospitality work might be too overwhelming to allow them to also do the career building stuff.

I think the widespread urge to find your passion and make a living from it is a societal problem. Younger relatives all seem to be doing multiple degrees at great expense to find their passions. I think the older generations accepted that you sometimes got lucky and passions and good remuneration match up, but most of the time they don't, and financial security wins out.

Waiting for someone to come along, clutching their pearls about how cruel this thread is and how discriminatory to ND people because people are daring to call out the sheer levels of self importance and exploitation of ND as an excuse to be a layabout.

You get a job, you work out what you like about it and don’t like about it, you make sure your next job has more of the things you like and less of the things you don’t. It’s an iterative process when you are young, and hopefully by your mid 30s you’ve found something you can tolerate until you retire. No one walks straight in to their dream job!