To think the term 'childfree' is as bad as 'childless'

I don't have children out of choice, and I like 'childfree'. It pretty much sums up how I feel and see myself.

I was glad that there was a more positive phrase than 'childless' as I resent the connotation that the default state is to have a child and therefore I am somehow lacking.

Amen to that. It’s endless.

This is one of those times when I read through responses and just think "fuck off, fuck off, fuck off"

I’ve never spoken about not having children in a goady or boastful way, but goodness, I’d make an exception for anyone I found out thought like CherryBlossomArt.

Mind you, now I’ve read the dogfree analogy my hard non-parent’s heart is softening. Who could fail to be moved by the suffering of dog owners who are subjected - on a dog forum no less! surely a safe place for dog lovers! - to people saying they don’t want dogs? Outrageous provocation!

I do find it amusing when the angry frothers like @CherryBlossomArt have ran out of things to say and default to the “Mumsnet is a forum for Mums so why are you even here” attitude….Its such an outdated and narrow minded view.

This is a public forum at the end of the day - so many different topics get discussed by any person who wants to partake for whatever reasons they like. If you don’t like it maybe you should be the one to find another site.

I would like to correct some pps.
It's not people understand other people's choices and not tolerating them.
It's targetted at women. Never heard anyone give a fuck when men said they don't want kids.

Some people seem to struggle with the idea that other people are happy with their choice to be childfree. They seem to think that group of people automatically hate children and parents and think it’s awful and the worst thing ever. Most “childfree by choice” people I know like children very much and spoil nieces, nephews and friends’ children. They hugely respect the commitment of parent but for various reasons, don’t want to do it.

If anyone should be offended, it’s people like me who cannot have children. I am absolutely not offended btw, just making the point.

Not wanting something for YOURSELF and being happy with YOUR choices doesn’t mean you are automatically negative and judgmental of other people’s choices!!!!!!!!!!

@KimberleyClark thank you but I feel I am wasting my time. The OP has lit the blue touch paper and buggered off. None of the 'offended' posters seem interested in addressing the points made by the child free not by choice posters.

Also ignored was the excellent post by a PP about the huge amount of complaining about how awful parenting is by parents on this site and IRL, then the bewildered suprise when some people refer to the 'burden' of child-rearing. It might have been a burden I would have happily shouldered at one point, but given the way some parents talk, I am not a bit surprised people simply don't want it.

I think it's a good thing parents feel able to talk about how hard it is, btw. But to act all surprised and offended that some people see all this both in the media and through the vicarious experience of close relatives with children, and say, 'no thank you' is just bizarre. In fact, child free pages are littered with people who cared for younger siblings as children and don't feel they can devote adulthood to it.

Yes, some child free are antagonistic arses about it, I agree, but that's not the fault of the name. And it does, in part, come with not having had a voice at all for so long, just as those mum's who are struggling have, in previous generations, not been able to say so.

Thank you for your post @ObelixtheGaul. Agree with every word. And you are right that it’s mostly not childfrees that start the goady threads. And it’s parents who come on to the MNers without Children board to argue the toss about what Childfree actually means, or to tell the childfree that they may not regret their choice now but mark their words, they will when they’re old and alone and unloved.

It was someone with children who started this thread. In fact, most of the goady posts on this subject aren't started by the 'childfree' at all, and some of the biggest criticism of the parents here comes from...parents.

What I choose to call my own state of lack of children is not antagonistic. If I use that term to berate those with children, then you could call me out on that behaviour. Most of us aren't doing that on here, unless goaded into it by threads like these, and attitudes about how we aren't 'pulling our weight'.

Some of the nastiest threads about children on here have been posted by parents. Parents with perfect children, apparently, who do no wrong.

Many of the posts here aren't about parenting at all. I actually originally came here to see the parent viewpoint pertaining to children with SEND, since I work with SEND children. I thought it would help my understanding in my work. And some of the most goady, awful threads about SEND are started by the aforementioned 'perfect parents'.

And STILL none of you fuming, offended parents have seen fit to acknowledge the many posters, including myself, who have said why we like the term as women who wanted, but cannot have children.

You don't want us here, fine. I don't want to be here any more. The sheer spite on this thread has shown those of us without kids for whatever reason how much women who aren't mothers are still viewed as 'less than'. Is it any wonder some of us have become militantly defensive when people think the only way we can 'pull our weight' in society is by having children?

That's sort of like how I feel about dogs.
I think they are adorable, I like to see dogs of my family and friends and play with them, good fun etc.
But I don't want a dog because I don't want to have to deal with the poop and the walks in the lashing rain and the vet bills and the restrictions on where we can go and hullabaloo sorting out kennels for holidays etc etc. My kids will grow out of these sorts of things, but the dog would be like that it's whole life.
I therefore consider myself dogfree rather than dogless.

Exactly! My child-free friends like spending time with my DS and happily pass him back! People who don't want children are free of the obligation of them

Indeed. My life is exactly how I want it to be- but my heaven would be someone else’s hell (and vice versa). That’s just a fact, and hardly something worth getting offended by.

I’m genuinely happy for anyone that is free to make choices for themselves, whether those choices concern children or anything else. Those choices aren’t required to be the same ones I have made or would make.

Bingo! Who had 8.24 in the sweepstake?

All of this.

OP got what she wanted.

That’s a you problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, but plenty of people don't fit into either group.

I wonder how the poster who has taken umbrage would react if their child decided not to have children and described themselves as childfree.

My last post was a reply to one that seems to have been removed whilst I was typing. Apologies.

I worked in an office where there were 7 women including me. 5 had children, I was 21 and childfree, the other woman was 22 and DESPERATE for a child. When we went out to get lunch we would always have to stop at little baby boutique near the cafe so she could buy something for when she had her baby, she had names picked out, she just couldn’t wait, it’s all she wanted.

She got pregnant and the 5 women with children were all basically saying ‘you’ve ruined your life’. If she mentioned she stayed up late to watch something ‘do it while you can no more tv or late nights when you have a baby’, if she bought herself some new shoes ‘don’t get used to it, you won’t have money for years now’, when she mentioned her fiance was putting up furniture for the nursery ‘don’t rely on him a lot of men leave women when they have a baby and he’s very young’. Babies and children were made to sound like they were just there to destroy your life and body (the labour scare stories were something else!).

She was so upset. I said to her don’t be upset, listen to what they say to me about having baby. I had a Friday and Monday off to have a long weekend away, I got all the ‘it’s alright for some’ type comments and ‘you can only do that because you don’t have kids’ then came the ‘yeah but she doesn’t have that love and joy in her life though’ ‘who cares about holidays if much rather have my kids’ type of comments made to each other and then to me saying I should have kids soon because I’d change my mind when I’m 30 (I didn’t) and be lonely and my boyfriend would leave me (we’ve now been married decades). They didn’t stop even when I told them I wasn’t ’on holiday’, I was away for a funeral but I got over it because it gave me the opportunity to say to my pregnant colleague - see, babies aren’t so bad are they! She didn’t get upset about the things they said to her after that!

There are also plenty of examples of people who seem to think people who haven't got children have no value to society and should just go into a corner somewhere. I mean, god forbid any of us express any happiness about our lives, regardless of whether it's learning to live with disappointment or completely through choice.

Have you ever thought that it's generation of being treated as 'less than' for women who can't or don't have children that got us to this point of some wanting to be 'out and proud' about it?

I am old enough to have been treated as somehow 'defective' and to be pitied for not being able to reproduce. I think it's bloody brilliant that we can be happier, more positive about it. The fact that we are still seeing some shocking 'not pulling your weight' attitudes in 2024 disgusts me, frankly.

I am still a productive member of society. I am actually productively working with other people's children. Without people like me, willing to work for low pay just to be with kids all day, the parents who 'pull their weight' so much more than me would have to stay home and look after/educate their own offspring.

But yeah, I am not pulling my weight because my uterus isn't functioning. What is this, the 50s?

Exactly @Completelyjo.

I mean, if parenting really is this wonderful, life-enhancing experience for you, then why does it even matter whether it sounds like a nightmare for someone else?

Random colleague - “do you have children?”
Me - “no I don’t, gosh isn’t it cold today?”
Colleague - “My best friend’s hairdresser’s next door neighbour was married to someone who had no children and they ate unicorn poo every day and got pregnant instantly!“
Me - “oh right, so anyway it’s getting so dark early too!”
Colleague - “you’ll probably change your mind about having children.”
Me - “well I’d better be off now. Have a nice day”
Colleague - “Children are a blessing!”
Me - “oh yes they are but I am child free.”
Colleague (channeling their inner CherryBlossomArt) - “I am doing my part in society by raising children and you sound selfish and why do you work in a place that helps children’s welfare when you don’t have children? I am offended!”

It’s nuts isn’t it!
The vast majority of the posts on this site are to do with parenting dynamics, why won’t my baby sleep, my child eats like shit, how should I discipline my child, being a working mum is so hard, being a stay at home mum is so hard and on and on and on but god for use anyone else acknowledges this and all of a sudden it’s “don’t say my child is a burden/obligation/hard work!”.

And I say this as someone with kids.

Not at all - like all groups, some are arseholes. I don't think you realise how unusual your level of anger is over a very low level of basic consideration for others. The majority of the parents on this thread don't agree with you either!