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To not want to keep storing expensive item when it has been sold?

143 replies

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 08:07

posted here for traffic!

Hi. I sold a very expensive item online 6 months ago (approx £8,000). The buyer paid for the item with a bank transfer and planned to collect ASAP. A courier was arranged on the buyers behalf, but there was an issue with customs and the item was returned back to me. I have checked and there is nothing ‘dodgy’ here - the item that was returned to me is the exact item that was collected.

I have been in regular contact with the buyer who keeps making excuses as to why the item cannot be collected. Says he is really busy, not had chance etc. He is located abroad else I would have just delivered the item myself (even though he is responsible for collection of the item).

Where do I stand legally? I am annoyed that I am essentially providing free insurance and storage for this item when this would usually be £££.

I have sent an email stating that the item must be collected by x date else it will no longer be available for collection. Would I then be obliged to return the money even though I have tried numerous times over the past 6 months to get this sorted?

YABU: item needs refunding if buyer isn’t collecting
YANBU: item has been paid and it’s up to the buyer whether he collects or not but the money is now mine

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 08/08/2024 09:47

MarkWithaC · 08/08/2024 09:36

I'd

  • talk to non-emergency police about potential money laundering and take their advice
  • get it checked by a jeweller (I know you're sure it's the same item but I'd want no doubt whatsoever)
  • check why exactly it was rejected by customs
  • assuming it's not money laundering, is the same item and the customs reason was innocent, email the buyer again and say you'll keep the item for a short period longer (10 days?) and will then refund the money minus insurance costs. And do check your contents insurance for what this would be.

Yep. This whole thing stinks, OP.

Cycleaway · 08/08/2024 09:47

You need to look up the Legal responsibility for distance selling - it’s quite a long time that you are obliged to hold a returned parcel - as in years not months. If you refuse to refund/put it back for sale, it could be you that’s facing repercussions. You might just have to make a nuisance of yourself reminding him about collecting it!

CautiousLurker · 08/08/2024 09:47

Catlord · 08/08/2024 09:41

No, it's not a point about contract law. It's more the moral and I suppose proportionality poubt

It is totally about contract law - once she knows her legal rights and whether the items is genuine, she and lawyer can calculate what is an appropriate refund. Whether we were talking about a £15 item or a £8k item, a small item that fits in a drawer or a car that is occupying a driveway, it is about whether the contract is complete, who has title for the goods, whether - should title be with the other party - she is under any obligation to continue to store his goods indefinitely, and if not (she won’t be) whether the title for said goods transfer to her over time. She has done nothing ‘morally’ wrong. The other party is at fault for failing to address the issue of taking possession of his goods once they failed to pass through customs.

blackcherryconserve · 08/08/2024 09:48

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 09:22

Thanks for all the advice so far.

The reason why I’d rather not just refund and resell is that it just takes up time. I have to pay for a professional photographer to take photos (I wouldn’t just be able to reuse the previous ones as you have to use the photographer of the company who I sold the item through and they need to be up to date to reflect any wear). I also have to take a day off of work to drive the 400 mile round trip to their offices! Also the fee of listing. It originally took two auctions to meet the reserve price too.

Agree that this may be what I need to do though.

Taking a day off work in order to sell for £10K is a no brainer to me!

Genevieva · 08/08/2024 09:51

You might do well to ask under Legal, as this is a contract law issue.

alwaysmovingforwards · 08/08/2024 09:56

I'd keep it simple.
Say it needs to be collected by x date or monies will be returned minus reasonable costs incurred and the transaction will be considered cancelled.
Then if not adhered to, relist and sell to a more reliable buyer.

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 09:58

Mayflower282 · 08/08/2024 09:36

He’s sent a fake back. It is just such a good fake that you can’t tell. Get it rechecked by a professional asap.

It’s not. The serial number is the same.

OP posts:
theduchessofspork · 08/08/2024 09:58

InsensibleMe · 08/08/2024 08:38

That would be theft.

Well no, because it’s the buyer hasn’t collected it, nor asked for a refund.

It may well be he’s v rich and now doesn’t really want it, but what I would do is send him a email saying he has two weeks to collect before you start charging for storage which will then have to be settled before you send it. Double check w CAB but seems reasonable to me. After a certain point ownership might return to you, but you probably need a solicitors opinion on when that is.

booksunderthebed · 08/08/2024 10:02

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/08/2024 08:43

We'll have to take your word for that, but even if it is the same item. Buyer has money from somewhere they shouldn't have. Sends you the money. Arranges a fake courier to collect the item and then return it to you citing a problem with customs. Waits for you to get fed up and return the money. The money is now clean.

It's a risky strategy given that you could just keep the money but I would be suspicious.

How is this laundering money? I mean, its obvious if £8000 has been spent on an item and then returned. Whoever is checking peoples accounts for signs of money laundering are not idiots.

I didn't think laundering money is as easy as buying stuff and getting a refund.

Tumbler2121 · 08/08/2024 10:03

is it fully insured as it isn’t actually yours?

Another possibility .. friend was selling, surprisingly, £8000 bracelet a while back. Someone was supposed to come to view it but didn’t turn up. Three weeks later she was burgled and this and other items were stolen.

police said this was not uncommon, we’re pretty sure they knew who it was

allmycats · 08/08/2024 10:13

Serial numbers can be faked and made to look exactly the same wear and markings as the original. Just get it checked out by a professional and go from there. It is not covered by your insurance as it is not yours. You can contact customs and excise and confirm the validity of the paperwork attached with the return.

SweetBirdsong · 08/08/2024 10:14

cookiebee · 08/08/2024 08:54

whatever has happened, this buyer is messing you around, they clearly have no motivation to sort this, leaving you quite anxious about doing anything further with the money. I’d suggest, if possible, refunding immediately and then put the piece in a physical auction, get it valued and sold at an auction house, with a reserve of a price your happy with, at least that way the auction house will liaise with the buyer and you will get your money easily, they do usually take a reasonable fee though.

This. ^ Give him his money back @Wheredoistandwiththis and tell him you are relisting the item, and make sure you block him so he can't buy it again. This is ridiculous. Whether it's a wardrobe, or a fancy watch, this man is still making it YOUR responsibility to look after the item HE has bought from you. It doesn't matter if it's not taking up much space. It's annoying! It's putting you on edge all the time, making you afraid to spend the money, and making you live in limbo.

'He is 'a very busy man with a high end job' and this is the reason he hasn't sorted it yet' is tripe. Sorry OP, I'm not being rude to you. It's him I'm getting at.... Smile There isn't a single soul in the world who 'would not have had time' to sort this. He just CBA for some reason.

Refund the money. You don't need to wait to re-sell it, you have the £8,000 he gave you. Give it back to him. You won't be losing anything. You will have the item still and he will have the money back. You have had the item for 6 months. For some reason he isn't bothered about getting it. Like some other posters, I also suspect money laundering.

Melonjuice · 08/08/2024 10:21

Saw this on citizens advice

You fail to collect goods you left with a trader
When you have a contract with the trader (even a small ticket can be a contract if it explains any terms) it should tell you what will happen and when it will happen if you don’t collect the goods. This notice or contract has to be reasonable and you must be given a 'reasonable time' to collect the goods before they are disposed of.
If there is nothing written down to form a contract between you and the trader then they would still be expected to make reasonable efforts to trace you. You should be told by the trader that the goods need to be collected and what will happen and when if you don’t collect them.
When you fail to collect the goods, after being informed that you have to, the trader can deal with them as if they have been abandoned. This means that the trader can let the police know the goods have been abandoned. The trader may be told to deliver the goods to the rightful owner or the police may get in touch with you to collect your goods.
The police have a responsibility to uplift abandoned goods and keep them for two months. If no one gets in touch with the police during this time, at the end of two months, they can:

  • return the goods to the finder, for example the trader who reported that they had been abandoned
  • dispose of them at a sale.
If returned by the police to the finder the goods now belong to the finder. If the original owner comes to collect the goods within a year of abandoning them they still have to be returned to the original owner.

Tell him He needs to fly over and come and get it himself or the above happens

Tippexy · 08/08/2024 10:21

Surely his address was on the parcel that was sent….!

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2024 10:24

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/08/2024 08:43

We'll have to take your word for that, but even if it is the same item. Buyer has money from somewhere they shouldn't have. Sends you the money. Arranges a fake courier to collect the item and then return it to you citing a problem with customs. Waits for you to get fed up and return the money. The money is now clean.

It's a risky strategy given that you could just keep the money but I would be suspicious.

Exactly what I was coming on here to say - I'd be really concerned that this is money laundering. Assuming that you sold this as a private seller then you should report this to the HMRC fraud hotline as an unusual transaction that might conceivably be money laundering - you can do it here https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud. DO NOT tell the purchaser in any way that you are going to report as this is known as "tipping off" and is an offence in itself. Assisting in a money laundering transaction can land you in hot water so a belt and brace approach is to report it - after all if there is no issue then HMRC will just close the file.

Once you have done this ask MN to delete the thread.

ETA to say please please do not refund the money as if it is money laundering that is what they want.

Report tax fraud or avoidance to HMRC

Report tax fraud by a person or business to HMRC - tax evasion, VAT fraud, false, Child Benefit or tax credit fraud.

https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud.

blackcherryconserve · 08/08/2024 10:26

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2024 10:24

Exactly what I was coming on here to say - I'd be really concerned that this is money laundering. Assuming that you sold this as a private seller then you should report this to the HMRC fraud hotline as an unusual transaction that might conceivably be money laundering - you can do it here https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud. DO NOT tell the purchaser in any way that you are going to report as this is known as "tipping off" and is an offence in itself. Assisting in a money laundering transaction can land you in hot water so a belt and brace approach is to report it - after all if there is no issue then HMRC will just close the file.

Once you have done this ask MN to delete the thread.

ETA to say please please do not refund the money as if it is money laundering that is what they want.

Edited

You make an excellent point as the return of the money IS what the 'buyer' is waiting for. No matter that he is 'a very busy man in an important job' lol.

Mindymomo · 08/08/2024 10:32

I’m not even sure you can insure an item that you don’t actually own. As you’ve found the guys details, I think I would phone him and tell him you want it sorted. I expect customs needed an invoice sent with it.

Blondiebeachbabe · 08/08/2024 10:36

It's not a large bulky item. Just stop contacting him. With any luck he will never collect it, and you'll end up with the jewellery and the money. He might be so rich, it's no big deal. Just keep quiet! 🤐

SweetBirdsong · 08/08/2024 10:37

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2024 10:24

Exactly what I was coming on here to say - I'd be really concerned that this is money laundering. Assuming that you sold this as a private seller then you should report this to the HMRC fraud hotline as an unusual transaction that might conceivably be money laundering - you can do it here https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud. DO NOT tell the purchaser in any way that you are going to report as this is known as "tipping off" and is an offence in itself. Assisting in a money laundering transaction can land you in hot water so a belt and brace approach is to report it - after all if there is no issue then HMRC will just close the file.

Once you have done this ask MN to delete the thread.

ETA to say please please do not refund the money as if it is money laundering that is what they want.

Edited

I do agree with this and think it could be money laundering. However..... if it IS money laundering, why would he just give away £8000 of 'laundered' money? Many people trying to launder money would invest it in a business, or buy high end/costly items with it. But this guy doesn't have the item. So he's £8,000 down at this point ...

Unknownsecret · 08/08/2024 10:38

Just to throw a spanner in the works … as you’ve sold it, I doubt it will be covered under your house insurance as it’s now not actually yours? Just something to think about and look in to.

LumpyandBumps · 08/08/2024 10:39

It’s an odd situation but I can’t understand how it could work as a scam. If the buyer had sent back a fake he would surely have asked for his money back long ago.
I think the item does need to be stored securely, with adequate insurance cover, at an official location.
The buyer could be given reasonable warning, 7-21 days of this happening.
He can be informed of the location, and advised that the storage fee has been paid until X date. That would need to be paid by OP.
If he fails to pay the storage charge or collect then the storage company will eventually sell it to cover their fees.
I don’t think there should be any mention of a refund. The item is sold. OP has made/ continues to make it available. It belongs to the buyer. OP has not been reckless with his property.

SweetBirdsong · 08/08/2024 10:40

Blondiebeachbabe · 08/08/2024 10:36

It's not a large bulky item. Just stop contacting him. With any luck he will never collect it, and you'll end up with the jewellery and the money. He might be so rich, it's no big deal. Just keep quiet! 🤐

But the OP doesn't want to keep it. She wants the 'very busy man with the terribly important job' to come and get his bloomin' item! 😬

As I said, NO-ONE is sooo busy that they couldn't have arranged for this item to be collected again. He just CBA for some reason, and it's very odd.

purplehue · 08/08/2024 10:50

@SweetBirdsong or if he is that important he will have staff who can arrange the pick up for him.

mjf981 · 08/08/2024 10:56

Blondiebeachbabe · 08/08/2024 10:36

It's not a large bulky item. Just stop contacting him. With any luck he will never collect it, and you'll end up with the jewellery and the money. He might be so rich, it's no big deal. Just keep quiet! 🤐

I'd do this. Stick it up in the loft and await further communication. If none comes after a year...you're up 8 grand.

SleepingisanArt · 08/08/2024 10:58

If the item was returned to sender having been opened by customs then the buyers address should be on the label. (Waiting for the OP to say its been removed before being returned at which point I will call this as BS.)

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