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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to keep storing expensive item when it has been sold?

143 replies

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 08:07

posted here for traffic!

Hi. I sold a very expensive item online 6 months ago (approx £8,000). The buyer paid for the item with a bank transfer and planned to collect ASAP. A courier was arranged on the buyers behalf, but there was an issue with customs and the item was returned back to me. I have checked and there is nothing ‘dodgy’ here - the item that was returned to me is the exact item that was collected.

I have been in regular contact with the buyer who keeps making excuses as to why the item cannot be collected. Says he is really busy, not had chance etc. He is located abroad else I would have just delivered the item myself (even though he is responsible for collection of the item).

Where do I stand legally? I am annoyed that I am essentially providing free insurance and storage for this item when this would usually be £££.

I have sent an email stating that the item must be collected by x date else it will no longer be available for collection. Would I then be obliged to return the money even though I have tried numerous times over the past 6 months to get this sorted?

YABU: item needs refunding if buyer isn’t collecting
YANBU: item has been paid and it’s up to the buyer whether he collects or not but the money is now mine

OP posts:
SoOriginal · 08/08/2024 09:16

I would re-sell it and see what you get for it. If you get more, then just refund his £8k. If you get less then refund him the amount it re-sold for.

I would give him 2 weeks notice of this and say at that time you are going to sell his property and will send him the money.

Catlord · 08/08/2024 09:20

CautiousLurker · 08/08/2024 09:06

I think you should contact a solicitor, as I am not sure he’s entitled to a refund - it is his responsibility to collect the item and the contract you’ve agreed has terms and conditions which you’ve complied with, but he has not.

I would not refund him anything yet, but ask a solicitor to explain your rights with respect to the actual property - as it is uncollected, outside contract, it may be that its title reverts back to you after all this time. Speak to legal professional as I don’t think this is so cut and dried that people with MN degrees in law can correctly advise.

Out of interest why?

Once it's verified as genuine and saleable (hopefully this will be the case), why scrabble around to get summat for nowt when she's going to have to pay for said advice and is likely to get a solicitor 's straight letter back?

Plus perhaps he's a scammer, perhaps he's a scatterbrain. Why not just move on and sell it for a higher value?

From her end it's just a private sale that fell through, assuming it's the same item (we don't know differently) she hasn't lost anything, just a bit of time messing about. Deduct a fee for that.

I don't get feeling entitled to the cost of the item twice over.

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 09:22

Thanks for all the advice so far.

The reason why I’d rather not just refund and resell is that it just takes up time. I have to pay for a professional photographer to take photos (I wouldn’t just be able to reuse the previous ones as you have to use the photographer of the company who I sold the item through and they need to be up to date to reflect any wear). I also have to take a day off of work to drive the 400 mile round trip to their offices! Also the fee of listing. It originally took two auctions to meet the reserve price too.

Agree that this may be what I need to do though.

OP posts:
Catlord · 08/08/2024 09:23

Bouledeneige · 08/08/2024 08:47

I was trying to think how this is a scam. If OP definitely got £8k it doesn't really matter if she got a fake back. If she organised a courier and the buyer claimed they didn't receive the item the buyer could keep the watch and then demand a refund. But OP could still refuse to refund and keep the money.

So how does a scammer come off better out of this?

If she sends him the money back without verifying it and it's been swapped with a fake

Conniebygaslight · 08/08/2024 09:23

The thing is, the buyer has your address OP. It could be any sort of scam. Either it’s been swapped or perhaps you agree to store and he arranges for it to be stolen from you, in both cases you’d return the money. It seems very dodgy to me.

HardyRoseSquid · 08/08/2024 09:24

You can’t keep the money and the item but it’s fine for you to now refund the money and sell it to someone else.

Mathsbabe · 08/08/2024 09:24

Unless you have made a special arrangement with your insurance company the jewellery is NOT insured. You don't own this item and do not have an insurable interest in it. House insurance only covers possessions that you own.
I would share this information with the buyer.

ShyCrab · 08/08/2024 09:26

I would keep it simple OP. I would firstly get the item checked over to confirm it hadn’t been swapped for a fake. Then I’d contact the buyer and advise that he has 14 days to arrange collection, otherwise you will be de-listing the item and refunding him. I would be minded to advise him that during this 14 day period the item won’t be covered under your insurance. Realise you’ve had varying opinions on here but that’s what I’d do. I understand why you don’t want this hanging over you, neither would I!
if this has been going on for 6 months+ he needs to pull his finger out.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 08/08/2024 09:27

HardyRoseSquid · 08/08/2024 09:24

You can’t keep the money and the item but it’s fine for you to now refund the money and sell it to someone else.

Yes, that's what I'd suggest. But if you've done well on the item it might not be in your best interest to do this....

Marseillaise · 08/08/2024 09:28

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 08:51

I have googled the buyer (who uses a business email address), and everything does check out. He has a very very high level role in a huge organisation. I don’t think this is money laundering, just a man with a busy job who isn’t that bothered about paying for an £8k item and taking ages to collect it!

So you now know where he works. Send it to him at that address.

timenowplease · 08/08/2024 09:30

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 09:22

Thanks for all the advice so far.

The reason why I’d rather not just refund and resell is that it just takes up time. I have to pay for a professional photographer to take photos (I wouldn’t just be able to reuse the previous ones as you have to use the photographer of the company who I sold the item through and they need to be up to date to reflect any wear). I also have to take a day off of work to drive the 400 mile round trip to their offices! Also the fee of listing. It originally took two auctions to meet the reserve price too.

Agree that this may be what I need to do though.

Then why isn't that company sorting it out?? Christ.

Linearforeignbody · 08/08/2024 09:31

Trading standards will be really helpful for this. That’ll also give you email templates with exactly what to say.

timenowplease · 08/08/2024 09:31

And why didn't they post it?

ArabellaScott · 08/08/2024 09:32

This is exactly why I would use a reputable auction house to sell an item.

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 09:32

timenowplease · 08/08/2024 09:30

Then why isn't that company sorting it out?? Christ.

They take no responsibility for anything. They just connect sellers and buyers. No communication is done via their platform.

OP posts:
housethatbuiltme · 08/08/2024 09:36

How much does it cost to store Jewellery? Stick it in a jewellery box.

I though you where talking about a car, caravan or furniture not something as small as jewellery.

Its pretty hard to claim storage fee's unless you can prove you are clearly out of pocket for only that item.

So as you say it is £8,000 if you have SPECIFIC insurance on that item (not just general home insurance) and you SPECIFICALLY have a bank lock box for just that item (not a lock box with several things in or your own house safe) you could probably claim that as an expense in small claims court.

As for saying its took too long at 6 months, it could be argued under abandonment laws. To do this you would have to contact the buyer to tell them to collect, if they do not contact the police to declare them abandoned (with proof you contacted the owner).

You will then either be told to deliver the goods back to the owner or more likely the police will take custody of them. If the police collect them they will hold them for two month and then either return them to you or sell them at auction.

MarkWithaC · 08/08/2024 09:36

I'd

  • talk to non-emergency police about potential money laundering and take their advice
  • get it checked by a jeweller (I know you're sure it's the same item but I'd want no doubt whatsoever)
  • check why exactly it was rejected by customs
  • assuming it's not money laundering, is the same item and the customs reason was innocent, email the buyer again and say you'll keep the item for a short period longer (10 days?) and will then refund the money minus insurance costs. And do check your contents insurance for what this would be.
Mayflower282 · 08/08/2024 09:36

He’s sent a fake back. It is just such a good fake that you can’t tell. Get it rechecked by a professional asap.

Motnight · 08/08/2024 09:37

Mayflower282 · 08/08/2024 09:36

He’s sent a fake back. It is just such a good fake that you can’t tell. Get it rechecked by a professional asap.

Shock
blackcherryconserve · 08/08/2024 09:37

Wheredoistandwiththis · 08/08/2024 08:20

I’m not able to send a letter to the buyer as I don’t have his address.

It was agreed that the buyer is responsible for collection of the item as arranging a courier is a pain for such a small package with a high value.

So how have you contacted the buyer up until now? If by email send him one reiterating a date by which the jewellery needs to be collected by.

Left · 08/08/2024 09:38

Have you got free legal advice through your home insurance?

I think you should be wary about taking any of the advice given here.

CautiousLurker · 08/08/2024 09:38

Catlord · 08/08/2024 09:20

Out of interest why?

Once it's verified as genuine and saleable (hopefully this will be the case), why scrabble around to get summat for nowt when she's going to have to pay for said advice and is likely to get a solicitor 's straight letter back?

Plus perhaps he's a scammer, perhaps he's a scatterbrain. Why not just move on and sell it for a higher value?

From her end it's just a private sale that fell through, assuming it's the same item (we don't know differently) she hasn't lost anything, just a bit of time messing about. Deduct a fee for that.

I don't get feeling entitled to the cost of the item twice over.

He contracted to buy an item: a contract requires offer, acceptance, intent to make legal relations and consideration to pass in order to be valid. She offered goods for sale, he accepted, this constitutes legal intent, and ‘consideration’ (payment) was passed. One of the terms and conditions of the contract was that he arrange collection, and this was effected. When that method failed and the item was returned to her, she had still complied with her part in the contract - to send the item. Once she handed the item over to the courier/delivery company her part in the contract was complete and title for the goods transferred to him.

He, however, is still bound by the contract - to arrange collection - and is in breach of this has he has not done so. A lawyer would advise what is an acceptable legal timeframe for the collection - in Uk law you have 14 days to void a contract and you generally cannot ask for a refund after 30 days, but I’m not a consumer law expert and this item has considerable value, so Op needs to at least seek a free initial consult with someone who actually knows what they are talking about, rather than a rusty law grad of 20 years ago.

Additionally in law, the contract may (I emphasise MAY) have been deemed complete on his side as soon as the courier took possession of the goods - in which case she is in possession of goods in the same way one would be if random items arrived at your home from Amazon etc and you had no way of forwarding them to the intended recipient or returning to sender. Possession becomes the mode of ownership - and is separate from the contract between Op and purchaser or the fact that she was the previous owner of said goods.

That the goods are in her house, not as C&E depot awaiting collection (which would be the usual form, hence my later post being suspicious as to whether the returned goods are, in fact, the same ones as sold) and, after a reasonable period in law would be deemed hers regardless of whether she previously owned the items.

She needs legal advice. And to check the goods returned from C&E are in fact the same. Not amateurs on MN.

Catlord · 08/08/2024 09:41

CautiousLurker · 08/08/2024 09:38

He contracted to buy an item: a contract requires offer, acceptance, intent to make legal relations and consideration to pass in order to be valid. She offered goods for sale, he accepted, this constitutes legal intent, and ‘consideration’ (payment) was passed. One of the terms and conditions of the contract was that he arrange collection, and this was effected. When that method failed and the item was returned to her, she had still complied with her part in the contract - to send the item. Once she handed the item over to the courier/delivery company her part in the contract was complete and title for the goods transferred to him.

He, however, is still bound by the contract - to arrange collection - and is in breach of this has he has not done so. A lawyer would advise what is an acceptable legal timeframe for the collection - in Uk law you have 14 days to void a contract and you generally cannot ask for a refund after 30 days, but I’m not a consumer law expert and this item has considerable value, so Op needs to at least seek a free initial consult with someone who actually knows what they are talking about, rather than a rusty law grad of 20 years ago.

Additionally in law, the contract may (I emphasise MAY) have been deemed complete on his side as soon as the courier took possession of the goods - in which case she is in possession of goods in the same way one would be if random items arrived at your home from Amazon etc and you had no way of forwarding them to the intended recipient or returning to sender. Possession becomes the mode of ownership - and is separate from the contract between Op and purchaser or the fact that she was the previous owner of said goods.

That the goods are in her house, not as C&E depot awaiting collection (which would be the usual form, hence my later post being suspicious as to whether the returned goods are, in fact, the same ones as sold) and, after a reasonable period in law would be deemed hers regardless of whether she previously owned the items.

She needs legal advice. And to check the goods returned from C&E are in fact the same. Not amateurs on MN.

No, it's not a point about contract law. It's more the moral and I suppose proportionality poubt

maplemaplesyrup · 08/08/2024 09:42

On reflection I’m shocked you let the buyer arrange the courier and didn’t even know his address. As PP have said, he could have sent a fake back.

CowGirl19 · 08/08/2024 09:44

Lets be honest @Wheredoistandwiththis it's not really a huge inconvenience to keep a piece of jewellery in your house (that was already included on your insurance) Not like its a car taking up space in your garage is it??

Honestly I'd just refund this guy his money and get a proper auction house to sell the item. Yes it would cost auctioneers fees - but this is why people pay these fees for selling high value items - you get their protection.

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