Is this odd for an 11 year old?

Try to hold it together (meant in the kindest most supportive way). You don't know what is going on yet. Yes you are terrified but try to keep your cool.

My son came back from a school trip away once and was upset/crying at home and crying at school and I was petrified of what might have happened.

It turns out when I got it out of him while they were doing an assault course he had made a joke/play idea about fighting the Germans in the war. (Perhaps they had been studying it at school) One of the instructors had pointed to another and said "He's German" and my son was then frightened and embarrassed.

What I am trying to say is it could be something or it could be nothing. I know it is terrifying for you as a parent though. Don't go all guns blazing until you know what it is.

I think you need to take a look at the diary. You could save a lot of time and worry. You mentioned outbursts when younger and some unusual/obsessive behaviour. Is there any other signs of being neurodiverse? In girls it can often only start to really show at this age

Has the GP offered you an appointment @Phonesthesedays? And why are her feet bruised?

I think if there is abuse it could be anyone. Not just your husband. How many of your son's friends is she spending time with? Peer on peer abuse is a significant issue. Also, the other adults giving her lifts. Have an open mind rather than focusing on your husband.

OP, you are right to be noticing something. As a teacher I once saw behaviour like this from one of my form group when they were in Year 8. The girl and her best friend eventually came to me and revealed what was happening. It turned out she was being groomed and felt very trapped. Luckily, by telling me the safeguarding, police etc were triggered and it was resolved before it became too serious.

It could be hormones, it could friendship issues, it could be anxiety. You don't know. Puberty is a turbulent time.

As the adult you have noticed and you are seeking help. I think emphasising that you are there for her and anything she needs to tell you will be taken seriously. She is your priority. If there is a grooming element they will have tried to isolate her from friends/family. I would say the same for your son. Try not to grill him but make it clear if there is anything he needs to tell you you are there to listen. I agree with other OPs about not letting her have lifts until you have eliminated that as a course for concern.

Hi OP.

I have a 12 year old in year seven and around year 5 she seemed a lot like your DD. All of the bolstering of self confidence I did kind of disappeared and she was happy at times but subdued and shied away from time with friends. She had started to self harm and has anxiety. No real reason for it but I think at that age it can be really hard for them.

Everything you say about a disconnect is really normal and resonated with our situation. I think mothers and daughters can be a very hard relationship. I hope you get the answers you need. I have managed to develop a talking time and a way that she opens up. A lot of follow up questions or trying to get open conversation and I always say you won't get told off for anything you say in this time.

Why are her feet bruised? I must have missed one of your posts.

I hope you can get to what is bothering your DD. It sounds lie something is hurting her soul. 💔

As an abused kid who's parents didnt notice and got embarrassed by my change in behaviour I want to thank you for addressing this. Hopefully it's just a horror film or hormones. I was actually shown a horror film by my abuser and I guess this was a good cover for the change in my behaviour.

If I were you I would just do all lifts yourself. Stop letting her go in cars with others. Her behaviour suggests something has happened maybe.

Re the saying there is no point- has she maybe hinted at something before you never picked up on? I remember trying to tell my mother but I couldn't outright say it so was round about hinting and it just pissed her off I was making no sense and she snapped at me. I remember trying a few times unsuccessfully. She also really liked me to go play where it was happening, think she likes me out from under her feet. Abusers groom whole families don't forget. so I would make sure your dd knows just because you like someone she doesn't have to and doesn't have to see them and that you love your child and their happiness and safety is more important to you than any friends you have. And you don't care about embarrassment or what people say if your child needs help you will help. 'What's the point' "you are the point dd there is nothing more important to a mother than her children"

My thoughts from early in the thread are that she's seen a horror film that's got into her head, or heard or seen something sexual that's upset her because she doesn't understand it. Quite possibly from one of the older boys. Not necessarily touching or deliberate abusive behaviour but being exposed to sex-related talk and ideas that you don't 'get' can seem very threatening and upsetting.

That combined with puberty and hormones could explain a lot.

Not being concerned about secondary school points to something outside school.

The 'no point telling you' could mean because she can't articulate the issue, or thinks you won't understand. Or more seriously that it's to do with people in your immediate circle, who aren't going to go away and she can't imagine you disrupting the social norm by challenging them (because she lacks adult awareness of the ways adults communicate and can deal with things, so is seeing this in simplistic terms).

This is tricky to navigate, if you keep asking her it could do more damage to your relationship, you just need to be there and for her to know you are. I became very melancholy at that age, I've already posted upthread, and my Mum was prone to being dramatic about things, and she constantly pestered me about what was wrong, tell me tell me tell me all the time. There was nothing to tell, I had a happy childhood and sometimes I think the realisation that life is not a bed of roses can hit harder or more suddenly when you have been protected from it. I didn't know why I felt as I did. Nothing was wrong but everything was wrong. I just wanted her to leave me alone to process.

I think you are right to be considering all possible options but try not to catastrophise, or at least not to let her know you are.

Surely it’s bullying.

Its happening to her, she is part of the group ot she has seen it happen and doesn’t know what to do about it.

There's a lot of change going on in her life and she needs to process that. She perhaps feels like she's being watched and quizzed all the time and it's just too much for her. Puberty is terrifying for some girls and the run up to the start of periods can be awful.

She shouldn't be anywhere near WhatsApp at her age and her phone use should be monitored. Agree with others who have said to make it clear to her that any messages will almost certainly pop up on other parents' phones. I would restrict her phone use considerably.

Ah OP this is hard. From memory (and I’m 37!) I remember 11 being a really tough age. I think girls can go through a transitionary period at this age which can make things suddenly difficult for them. I actually did end up starting my period early when I was 11 and it was a lot. It made me really hyper aware of my body in quite an upsetting way and I felt quite disconnected from my friends who had not reached that stage yet. Even if DD isn’t starting her period she may be going through hormonal changes related to this which could be making her anxious.

The other thing I wondered about was body hair. Again, I seemed to develop body hair a bit before some of my friendship group and was VERY self conscious about it. This could explain her changing in the toilets and wanting to hide herself from her peers who she may worry are going to notice. You could always really gently introduce her to shaving or some form of hair removal and see her reaction. Perhaps frame it that some girls at high school may shave their legs / armpits and if she wished to as well then you would support it.

This could be her hormones getting ready for when she starts her periods. I was the same before I started my periods. I would ask my mum why I felt like I wanted to cry all the time and she had a chat with me about it all and made me feel better. I still go really quiet now before my periods, it's a horrible feeling.

It could just be she’s starting puberty and doesn’t know how to deal with all her new feelings. It’s a confusing time. It’s a tough one though in case there is more to it

I am glad you noticed, posted and have had lots of helpful input. The thing that struck me is that your DD said there was ‘no point’ telling you what was wrong. So it’s something she feels hopeless about that she believes you have no power to change.

start with your GP and school safeguarding: I would be worrying about sexting/grooming/county lines/SA/eating disorder/ocd

xxx

@Phonesthesedays As others have expressed, I also had some similar behaviors to your DD at that age; of course everyone's situation is unique, but here's what I have to offer in case it's helpful -

First off, and most importantly, please 10000000% do not read her diary. I sporadically kept a diary as a kid and wrote in notebooks and the like, and I am still mortified by the thought that my parents might find some of my old writings lying around the house. I don't even remember what I might have written, but I had a rough time around that age and am glad to be distanced from that mindset. I hope even if my parents found my 11 year old self's diary today that they would declutter it or at least offer it to me instead of snooping. Whatever events she may have referenced in there should be ascertained in a way that doesn't annihilate her privacy and trust, which would be totally counterproductive.

Second, PPs comments about hormones/puberty/"self discovery"/etc are resonating. It is possible that your DD is just coming to an age where her right to privacy and independence is becoming more relevant and she is feeling the need to assert that (maybe that has something to do with the car seating too? Just a thought).

I was brought up with a weird combination of rigid religious expectations (wasn't allowed to say "oh my god," wasn't allowed to show any outward frustration/"disobedience" to my parents...) and personal oversharing/enmeshment from my mom, so take all this with that grain of salt. That being said, I think the very most important thing is making sure you give your daughter every reason to know and believe that she can be transparent about important issues without fear of repercussions or judgement from you (or even another trusted adult if that's more comfortable for her).

Hopefully it's just normal (albeit frustrating) teen angst, and I hope you and your daughter come out on the other end closer and stronger together 💝💐

I was also going to say ocd - we have a lot of it in our family and it can be triggered at puberty onset. Your comment re perfectionism and your own eating disorder (often can be due to neurodiversity as a form of control when your body and works is changing and you feel out of control). Also this chatting of hers could be adhd - adhd is known for this in females too. We also have this in family.
Ask her why she does not like to sit in the front anymore.
i suspect the quietness and room stuff she is having intrusive thoughts

Please just sit with DD and explain you are worried. Tell her you've noticed a change in behaviour and want to understand. You could tell her school have noticed too. Tell her you want to listen. Then actually listen. Ask probing questions.

I really think it will be something and nothing and you've escalated this in your mind to some serious.

Tell her if she doesn't speak up you need to take her to see the doctor . It might shock her into talking.

If she won't speak directly to you do you have a pet or her have a favourite teddy? Could she tell them and you listen?

I also find going for a walk or a drive takes the confrontation out of a situation and maybe sit in your bedroom and not hers so her safe space isn't breached.