To think if you can no longer afford school fees...

So private schools are just for the mega elite ? The aspiring middle class should know their place. Sounds ace for social mobility 👍🏻

Sigh @FourOfDiamonds

"It may not happen straight away but in five years time those families that would have gone private will be manoeuvring to get into the best grammar and state schools"

Most of the country doesn't have grammars, and the people that send their children private almost always live in the catchments of great state schools.

In reality the majority of people won't move, it will be the few that are on the margin, this is unlikely to create great disruption.

I understand that.

But that doesn't automatically equate to private provision. Some state schools can also provide this. I think that's all people are trying to get across.

how about that nobody else anywhere charges VAT on education?
Everything I have read states that “most” countries do not tax private school fees, which means some do. For example, Greece charges 23% VAT on private school fees.

people always conveniently forget that the vast majority of people paying for school fees are already contributing far, far more in tax to the treasury than the people going on about unfair "tax breaks."

As a % of their income, poorer people pay more overall tax than richer people. This is because poorer people have to spend all their money on essentials that include VAT, whereas the better off, the top 7% that can afford private school fees have so much disposable cash that they hoard it into tax shelters and get higher tax relief on pensions.

Biscuits have VAT

They only have VAT added if they’re covered in chocolate. Normal biscuits are VAT free.

@Tandora

"So private schools are just for the mega elite ? The aspiring middle class should know their place. Sounds ace for social mobility"

Private schools are overwhelmingly used by households in the top income decile, outside of this the proportion of children from every other income decile is close to 0, not 1%, close to 0.

Outside of this, the reason for student attending is down to household wealth or grandparental help rather than bursaries etc.

They aren't used by the middle classes, and they aren't bastions of social mobility.

Yes they are just for the elite. It’s better for all of us if the middle classes go back to state schools. Because then we will have the voting power to get state education properly funded and resourced- to have it levelled up.

Genuine question - what's the counter argument? I get that in the short term families who have to leave PS won't be able to do this but long term (5 years plus) I totally see it happening. If a family that can borderline afford private decide to go state they have so many resources to chuck at it to ensure they get into the best which means someone else won't.

Biscuits have VAT

They only have VAT added if they’re covered in chocolate. Normal biscuits are VAT free.

Private schools - like state schools but more chocolatey?

I did say significantly impact them.

Maybe l did and it was a waste of money 🤣

Then they will be easily able to afford it then. As high earners and the wealthy, they also benefit far more from society than most, it facilitates their earnings, so it is only right that they contribute more.

There is a point where the very small proportion of people propping up the entire state become fed up with it and stop. And then the country is fucked. You can't keep milking people forever.

Biscuits have VAT

Fairly sure they don't, unless they have chocolate on them. I'm off to enjoy a Rich Tea tax break.

"It’s better for all of us if the middle classes go back to state schools."

So middle class that you can afford 18k ( on average) yearly for secondary school?

Or are we going with the classic British definition which is down to titles/professions?

Or the Marxist? If your income only comes from your labour you aren't middle class?

Threats? No I haven’t but what do you mean by threats?

Doesn't sound like my local private school at all.

My husband and I certainly aren't "elite". We are, I suppose, now middle class from thoroughly working class backgrounds. We've worked hard and can afford the fees. Don't know any parents from the upper echelons at our private school.

@Labtastic

"There is a point where the very small proportion of people propping up the entire state become fed up with it and stop. And then the country is fucked. You can't keep milking people forever."

But they aren't propping up the country, only 25% of taxes come from income taxes and the top 10% pay half of those, so maybe 12.5%. Or should we bow down to their generosity?

As far as I'm aware the Laffer curve has never actually had any empirical evidence to prove the theory either.

What threats are we talking about?

Why can’t we separate this discussion into a) an intellectual discussion around the benefits of the policy and b) support for parents who are struggling regardless of school?

Yep, the luxury version of goods and services should attract VAT.

Private education is a luxury service.
Any private tutoring service you hire- you already pay VAT.

You already have 93% of parents potentially voting for better state an extra 0.7% is insignificant. ( that is if 10% of the 7% move to state).
Please think it out before making ridiculous statements.

As a % of their income, poorer people pay more overall tax than richer people. This is because poorer people have to spend all their money on essentials that include VAT, whereas the better off, the top 7% that can afford private school fees have so much disposable cash that they hoard it into tax shelters and get higher tax relief on pensions.

The top 10% of earners contribute over 60% of tax receipts in this country.

So how exactly is the policy going to make those kids lives better?

"My husband and I certainly aren't "elite".

Didn't say you are elite.

Although its already been proven on these threads that people's idea of what average/middle incomes are is wildly inaccurate. They mostly make these observations based on people like them.

Take it your local private isn't a standard fees either?

@Labtastic

"The top 10% of earners contribute over 60% of tax receipts in this country."

No, they don't. Income tax is only about 25% of the entire tax take.

This is repeated so often I'm surprised that such high earners don't know the difference.

How are you confused about which classes can afford private school fees?

Those % are only income tax. There’s more than one tax.