Is this destructive or normal behaviour?

I'd have a chat to her, and try and aim for a logical consequence. Taking her ipad away is just punitive, it doesn't reflect the issue. I'd be discussing why she did it, making sure she cleans up the carpet instead of doing somethibg she enjoys tomorrow and cleaning the sugar/helping rid the ants and hen the key is finding out the root cause. I find positive reinforcement is always best, so if there's something she wants at the moment, can she earn it through controlling her impulse. It does sound like it's you that she's aiming for, is she wanting your attention, can you agree some golden time together every day where you do something. Slightly different but I've noticed my daughter has started singing EXTREMELY loudly (deliberately and annoyingly screeching) when I am on my phone - we discussed that it wasn't appropriate but I also conceded that I should use my phone less and bridged the need she had to pay her some attention, whilst also making sure she knows that i use it for work and sometimes will be on it. Most kids don't randomly do stuff for no reason at all, expecially at 9...

Is she anxious about something? Maybe something she hasn't so far been able to talk to you about?
I'd be curious to find out why then be accepting rather than punitive.
Good luck OP.

This.

And she thinks she’s getting away with lying about it. I would stop asking if she has done things and tell her you know she has and it’s not acceptable.

Yes it's destructive. No it's not 'normal' for a 9 year old. So assuming no additional needs, I'd assume either attention seeking, or that she was angry about something. Personally I'd be straight with her (she's old enough) and tell her you know she did these things (assuming there is no doubt of course) and can she explain to you why? I'd also tell her that if she did things like that again, she would need to put them right, so clean up the sugar/go without a treat so the money could buy new starch etc. Alongside that, I'd be thinking whether there may be a possible cause I needed to address, was she getting enough of my attention/kept sufficiently occupied? Might something at home have caused her to be angry or upset...?

She’s a kid, and kids are weird.
I distinctly remember when I’d be home alone I would put moisturiser on my hands and leave hand prints on every mirrored surface in the house and before my parents were home I’d frantically wipe them all off with a TOWEL.

I also once found a lighter and decided I had to burn/melt a pack of plastic straws we had. I melted every one over the kitchen sink as I knew fire was dangerous - what I didn’t know as a child was that the ash was up in the air, so when I finished and tidied up the evidence I left the kitchen rather happy with myself, until my Dad came home to see a kitchen COVERED on every surface with ash and having all electrics checked as I refused to admit it.

Also tried to make a pancake and ended up with some weird glue/ rubbery disk in the frying pan. Didn’t want to get in trouble so I walked to the local park with the entire frying pan and rubber disk to throw it in the stinging nettles. Another time I found a bottle from an unused hair dye pack and emptied it on the patio and ruined the slabs.

I have zero reason for doing any of these things, other than just being a weird kid and wanting to do it - none of it was malicious, just born from curiosity and lack of understanding that ramifications existed

@TheGoodPlace24 I think this was your old thread? I think it would be useful to hear if anything has changed since September otherwise you will probably just get the same replies as last time?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/4889427-daughter-has-wrecked-the-walls

I like the idea of giving her stuff to mess around with. Maybe a toy chemistry set? You can get some good things like homemade volcanos.

I wouldn’t say this is usual behaviour for a 9 year old, a toddler yes but not older child. Is there something happening at school such as bullying etc? Could be her way of letting out her frustrations/upset? Worth speaking to teacher to see how she’s behaving there. It’s also sounding a lot like neurodiverse issue such as adhd or similar. I’ve been working with kids for 30 years now and would def say there is something behind this behaviour and not just “naughty” at this age. As above I’d ask her why she’s done something, if it makes her feel happy/sad/in control and def speak to school as well. They can refer you to further help but you will prob need to be firm and proactive about it as they are so overwhelmed with children needing extra support. Most of all loving and being supportive of her, one on one time where you can and just being there for her.. so hard for you both having to deal with this. Lots of luck

@TheGoodPlace24 Sounds like she is bored. Have you tried getting her to help you with stuff like cooking or laundry. Even if you find an arbitrary task to do alongside you she is getting 1:1 time, something to do and also learning to respect how the house needs work to keep clean. Definitely involve her in problem solving the baby oil stains, research together, clean it together-make it a joint project.

Sugar, could just be sneaking a snack. I used to nick cubes of unmelted jelly when I had sugar cravings as a kid. Is there access to healthy food freely. (Not meaning to be judgmental, just kids have growth spurts at all ages and could be that what they normally eat is suddenly not enough)

I remember your previous thread, in which your child was slowly but surely declared a psychopath which was obviously highly ridiculous. What have you done and changed in the meantime because I don’t think there is any merit in users giving the same responses and recommendations once again.I am quite sure that the collective advice to seek professional help, so I hope you took that on.

At 9 she knows what she is doing is wrong. She is getting away with lying about it too. I would be taking her iPad, etc and giving her boring chores like “helping” you fold laundry/empty dishwasher, etc. (Usually makes it take ten times longer). I would also ask if she has been doing weird attention-seeking things at school.

My son’s behaviour started to change to being more naughty recently. When I asked him why he was doing these things he said he watched it on YouTube prank videos. I hold my hands up and say I knew he watched some YouTubers but it all seemed harmless until I actually sat down and properly watched them. It was doing things similar to what you’ve described and they film the parents reaction, usually over the top, cringy poor acting screams so obviously those parents being filmed know what’s happening. He said he was just trying to make me laugh/be a YouTuber. Not saying this is what is happening for you but maybe it’s an avenue you hadn’t thought about. We stopped all access to youtube after that and we seen a huge improvement in his attitude. I hope things get better.

Please don’t do this. What are you hoping she’ll learn? The consequence is completely illogical. She’s clearly trying to communicate something with her behaviour; an unmet sensory need perhaps. I’d advise looking up more up to date parenting and discipline methods. Dr Martha gives fantastic evidence based advice. She’s very active on Instagram and has a great book out: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Be-Grown-Up-Parenting-Starts/dp/1787636887/ref=asc_df_1787636887/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=658844159684&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13976629687003753093&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046231&hvtargid=pla-2195202015289&psc=1&mcid=554fe36d733439ae903d5fce00458fe6&th=1&psc=1

It definitely sounds more like a sensory thing than being destructive. I remember making potions emptying my mums products into the sink etc. I assume she doesn’t have any additional needs as you didn’t mention it? Maybe try something like kinetic sand or slime making?

It was a while back for me, but my daughter had very poor impulse control as a kid, she destroyed her room so many times, cut cables with nail clippers, posted coins into the cd player, and once smashed a window. Some of it was burgeoning hormones and some of it was because of bullying at school I found out later.

She's now a well adjusted adult, home owner and a wonderful mother of a 5 month old, it does get better.

I remember the horror and exhaustion of it all but talking, rationalising with her, lots of tears from both of us and endless hugs really helped.

This has brought back the memory of an idiotic thing I did at age 9, shortly after moving into our new house. I was mad at my dad for something so I (allegedly) wrote all over the wall of my bedroom closet in cursive, which we were learning at school. When he saw it, I denied it and tried to blame it on the girl who had lived in the house previously.

He must have had a great laugh because the thing I wrote in about 8 different places was my own full legal name. 😆 It’s still there 32 years later and I still maintain that I was obviously set up by the previous girl who had that room. 😇

I’m no dr, but I would be freaked out if my child was acting like that, sounds at bit psychopath like in actively trying to be secretly destructive and devious to upset you. I could be completely wrong but that was my first thought!

Sounds a lot like my 10 year old, but he is autistic and has ADHD so is a sensory-seeker and doesn't have the same level of impulse control as most kids his age. I did laugh, I will admit, when I saw the baby oil bit as my son did exactly the same, but then threw talcum powder all over the oil too. This was in lockdown so he was a bit younger and struggling with all the changes (we also didn't know he was ND then). As we've understood him more and he's felt better supported, a lot of this behaviour has subsided.

Lots of armchair psychologists here and I’m going to add to it. It reminds me of this.

What's she trying to communicate? She wants your attention. Is anything else going on?

@TheGoodPlace24 from experience with my own daughter, I am almost sure this is sensory-seeking. Mine is 11 now and we are seeing fewer instances of this, but we've had: scattering baby powder all over the floor of the bathroom, sticking her fingers into my face cream or foundation, drawing on her own wall in pencil, drawing on the furniture (very near the floor so it took a long time for us to notice), cutting the tablecloth or the (very old) sofa cover with scissors, cutting a bit off the rubbery aerial of her brother's clock radio, writing her name with her fingernail on the leaf of a succulent plant...

Most of these were cleanable but it does make me have a sinking feeling of "Why does she feel compelled to make a mess of things?" And I think it's mostly poor impulse control. She's awaiting CAMHS assessment and I am expecting either autism or ADHD. I do sometimes wonder if she doesn't take in that anyone will mind - she was really astonished that we were cross that she'd made a mess of drawings and rubbings-out on her newly painted wall, "because it's my wall".

I used to tear all the corners off pages in my books (which she also does), spill things semi-on-purpose, tear and cut up paper, and sometimes pull hairs from my fringe out. I grew out of all of these, so I'm hoping she will too.

I think you sound overly concerned about a clean house. I don’t own starch spray or air freshener spray. Is she allowed to play with things that might get messy. Buy her a spray bottle with water in it and let her play in garden “watering” plants. But her a potions kit for bathroom and let her make her own experiments with them. Hooded owl is good. Sounds like she is exploring. She does sound quite old to be doing it but If she’s never had a chance? You can also explain that you dislike the mess and the wastage. And then offer some different options, slime, kinetic sand maybe she just needs to experience different sensations and explore her freshly scented and starched environment!

I've sometimes talked about an imaginary third person/character doing something- 'It looks like a cheeky ghost has been here and got up to some messy business, I wondered if you heard anything or might know what he's been up to?' then they've confessed to what 'the ghost' has done- usually through curiosity without thought for the consequence. When they've felt to bad to admit to it themselves, they've been able to tell me about it through the 'ghost'! We both know who the ghost really is. Then we've sorted out what the cheeky ghost has done together, and talked about them having a word with the cheeky ghost/teddy next time they see them to make sure it doesn't happen again. Years later we have a laugh about it and whether the ghost is still up to antics somewhere...

Does she have any additional needs or suspicions of additional needs. This sounds very sensory (from a send teacher’s point of view) and could mean that she is seeking some kind of sensory feedback from doing it. So instead of taking it away and punishing her you could try proving an opportunity for similar experiences. Think back to younger children who keen through sensory play. Could you get a tuft tray and put in it opportunities for things to sprinkle - such as sand, lentils depending on the texture of things she’s liking. Then again you could give her a spray bottle and allow her to spray into the tray as well - separate to dry sprinkling. You could get some little bottles of paint and big sheets of paper and she could spray paint some pictures. But making sure she only does it in the designated space. Have it somewhere (outside maybe) where you’d not be worried about the mess. Even spraying water on a dry wooden fence can produce some pictures that eventually dry up. Buckets of water and cups for tipping and transferring might be good as well or a chance to play in the bath.

I know a friend who had a child who kept ripping things up and the OT suggested a rip box so they got a box and any scrap paper/newspaper was to be ripped k to there from the rip pile. The rest of the house quickly became safe.

Definitely get her to help clean up as well.

Even baking might be a good take you can do together and you’d have the reward of something nice at the end of it. Ribbing butter and flour for making dough for instance and then poring in the wet ingredients. Creaming butter and sugar and pouring in the wet ingredients.

Even get her to help clean in the good and give her the spray to clean the windows.

Find lots of positive useful purposes for her actions to focus them in on. Create a choice board for her to then be able to choose activities from when she’s feeling the need to sprinkle/spray. It might be her way of calling and regulating herself. Maybe look at what she is doing just before she does those things and see if there’s a trigger of something upsetting her or stressing her out.

This sounds like something ds10 would do- he has adhd and asd and if he finds a sensory thing that feels good he will do it compulsively (and then feel awful later).

pulling the trigger on a spray bottle would be one of those things- enjoying the sensation and not realising what he was doing (wasting the product and getting stuff wet) until it was too late.

He would come and tell me and apologise though, and help me clear up.

I also have adhd and did a few ‘mindlessly destructive’ things as a child (emptying cup and buckets of water onto my own bed because I was imagining a flood, and repeatedly throwing a clock on the floor to see if I could break bits off it) my parents didn’t do anything special, were just cross and disappointed/shocked- I stopped by high school!