To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

@Giraffesandbottoms Yes plenty of people have no clue or don't care, have MH issues, addictions, can't read, never heard of the nhs website and had shite parents themselves.

An eye opener for me was doing some work for a social enterprise charity, many people in this country live extremely chaotic lives.

Do we try and alter the lives of their children or do we stand by and do nothing?

I can’t even begin to express how insane it is that you think teachers need to take responsibility for shit parents.

Are we really supposed to believe parents don’t know they should be brushing their children’s teeth 2 x a day? Really?

do they not have access to the nhs website?

it’s amazing that someone would need a handhold through that, rather than realising they brush their own teeth and then doing some 30 second research.

It’s literally the exact point of this thread. It’s easier to blame lack of dentists than to accept parents are not doing what they are supposed to be! Government must be to blame that the children have rotting teeth, not the parents.

yes, lack of available dentists is an issue. That doesn’t just excuse parents from doing anything themselves/trying to force teachers to.

err thats Labours current policy which posters seem to be up in arms about.

Perhaps people unable to parent wouldn't be parents if they weren't told you should only get housing if you have kids. I have DC but think it's disgusting to suggest 'punishing' people without children.

@JenniferBooth People can't win! Told not to have kids then told they should've.

Childless and childfree people pay tax too, and use less public services than people with DC (schools, maternity care, NHS treatment for kids).

This thread is full of contractionary expectations of people. Not just about housing.

If people want less state dependancy, need to look at the wider picture. Good public services including affordable housing (for all households including childfree and older people), supportive benefits system that includes compassion for the disabled, improved CMS enforcement, recognition of the important contribution made by carers, and education, work and training opportunities.

People then get the help and support they need, so don't end up in worse situations needing more and longer term state dependancy.

Given the deliberate policy of having immigration around 700k per year, why is a falling birth rate a concern to the Government?

Well said. Prevention is better than cure/treatment!

But fortunately you didn't have to foot the bill on the repair

With the exception of Miriam Cates but I'm not sure it got any traction in the broader party, and certainly not with a vie to policy making? I'd like to be wrong through.

I'm not sure I've seen any one of the major parties actually speak directly about the declining birth rate?

Not really, if the child saw a dentist, the parent could be educated on brushing, diet etc
Not all would take this advice but plenty would.

At least if the child is able to brush their teeth at the planned breakfast clubs, then that child may go on not to repeat the same mistakes their parents have made.

@Againname And the Government have spent the last year moaning about the lower birth rate after years telling people they shouldnt have kids if they cant afford them.

Why not? It is related to poor parenting

THIS! And believe me if i could afford to buy i would. To get away from some of their bloody contractors

And FYI antibiotic use in pregnancy can impact tooth development in utero which can show up in milk teeth. Found this out when my son had poor dental health at primary age despite fastidious care on our part. When the dentist asked my history and I explained I'd had extensive antibiotic treatment for UTIs throughout my pregnancy, due to pre-eclampsia that reached crisis point and resulted in emergency induction at 35 weeks, she said that was the likely explanation.

So take your high horse elsewhere.

I see some people are still blaming tenants rather than the developers despite the example i posted about the Elephant and Castle and Heygate. Very telling

Not the sodding point as you damn well know.

I've seen people post on Mumsnet that they could afford to buy a house but prefer to stay in social housing - is this the right thing to do, in view of the chronic shortage of housing for people in real need?

I can't know for sure but I suspect many are simply 'saving face'. Can't really afford to buy but because there's a stupid stigma around social housing some people might feel embarrassed to say they can't afford to buy.

The other thing is because Shit Happens sometimes, they'll be aware that if they give up their social home but later on lose their job or get ill or relationship breaks down, or some other unplanned event that leaves them needing to be 'dependant on the state', they could end up homeless. Especially with the attitudes of many on here who think only families with children should have social housing, so if the Shit Happens once their kids are adults they'd be fucked.

Impact of moving away from your settled community shouldn't be ignored either. PP complain about growing state dependancy but why do they think so many people are off sick depressed and anxious? Or needing state care?

Loads of people are made to move for work or housing away from family, friends, and neighbours (who often provide support, practical and emotional). So then more people are suffering from depression and anxiety, and older and disabled people have nobody to care for them (except the state). Being isolated is a big reason for that.

Why do people think there's so many social problems and disadvantage (that increases state dependancy)? If social housing is made into a 'poverty ghetto' it's bad for communities and leaves more people state dependant because everyone else moves away so there's no opportunities.

Better off social renters won't be on benefits so will be paying the full rent. It's not as if they're living there for free.

Bob Crowe strongly believed that social housing should be mixed, not 'poverty ghettos', and he understood the value of stable community. As a PP says he also didn't do Right to Buy. RTB is a major reason why there's now a shortage.

Anyway I don't think it's that many people who wouldn't buy if they genuinely can afford to. A few, maybe, but many people want to own. They'll have mortgage paid off when older so unlike renters won't have monthly cost of housing payment (rent) when retired. Also they'll have equity to free up cash if needed.

I actually know a family who're in the process of buying (not RTB). Currently in social housing but finally able to afford to buy.

A 5 year old with rotting teeth doesn’t have rotting teeth because he hasn’t seen a dentist. It’s because his parents haven’t brushed them 2 x a day and let them
eat/drink crap.

"A government big enough to give you everything that you want is a government big enough to take away everything you have

They already did that in 2020 and 2021. And that was communism not socialism

@Againname I even had a thread on it. This is where i was told i shouldnt be in social housing because i dont have living proof that ive had sex without contraception.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/childfree-mumsnetters/4825473-child-free-people-being-told-they-deserve-less-yet-being-expected-to-do-more

Ive just had my HA turn up with no notice FOUR MONTHS after the electric check to fit an isolator Now thats done the fuse box will be changed so they want to turn the electric off on another date for four hours. My flat is bloody hot already, Im not having the fridge freezer off for hours in the heat. The flat is too hot where THEY have over insulated it. They have had FOUR MONTHS where the weather was cooler to do this. Typical fucking housing association.

You do not need a ground floor flat if you are elderly. You do need a working lift and a safe environment.
Moving people into a flat as soon as their children leave home would require a building programme.

Right so single and childfeee people (despite paying tax the same as everyone else, and using less public services, for example schools) don't get homes?

According to many people on this thread there's lots of irresponsible parents having children they can't afford or can't parent.

Yet you seem to be advocating for the system that encourages having children regardless of ability to care for them, and that punishes childless and childfree people!

If you want everyone to downsize as soon as their kids leave home, then there needs to be an urgent & massive build of 1 and 2 bedroom social homes. Because right now there's a massive shortage.

The other issue is that, due to the unaffordability of housing but also life circumstances that happen (marriage breakdown, DV, older person needing family carer) often adult DC need to move back home.

Also PP have pointed out that many older people have mobility issues, so if it's a flat they need ground floor and space for medical equipment.