To think most women on here hate men

@strangewomenlyinginponds I would accept no less in a husband.
I fail to see how a SAHP with no kids at home is working as hard as a partner in ft employment. I don't think it's reasonable personally.

I agree. Having reached 70 I can honestly say that I have a very jaded view of the majority men.
I would never marry or live with a man again ; as someone on here wrote a while ago they usually need a purse or a nurse. All too bloody true 🤬

Yes, absolutely many women also work full time while also doing care and home duties. However, the poster was wrongly trying to imply that those women who do work part time sit around eating bonbons all day when not in paid employment. I was just correcting their ignorance.

Glad you have a decent dh who does his share :)

I do all of those things AND work ft. Our youngest is 3 and I have been working ft since end of mat leave. My husband and I are a team so we help each other. This includes both providing financially for our family and everything else on top.

This is quite a stupid post and you appear to be aggressively misogynistic and are making all sorts of ridiculous assumptions based on nothing except your own thoughts.

Nothing you said here is relevant,and you appear to have nothing to add, so please stop talking at me, thanks.

A lot more women have a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder than men.

Difference in death rates seems to be related directly to lethality of method and the fact that women are more likely to ask for help or communicate their distress to others and generally have more support networks around them due to their different choices and communication methods.

Anyway, all guesswork aside, more women attempt suicide - a lot more - than men. This is a fact and it is constantly overlooked.

And of course only a misogynist or someone who is totally uneducated about male violence would attempt that ham fisted DV argument which has no basis at all in reality and zero relevance to the discussion of suicide.

No need to whatabout, derail or minimise. I was responding directly to a "whatabout the poor men" post with factual reality. It doesn't matter if reality offends you.

I don't know any feminists, I'm certainly not one, but you do you.

It's not a competition, of course. But many do try to turn it into one.

But let's be honest. If one partner is living the life of Riley funded by the hard work of their spouse it's almost always the women. And we don't like it the other way around because SAHD and men that earn less than their wives are statistically much more likely to be divorced by their wife.

It's an odd dynamic where the supposedly oppressed party doesn't want to switch places with the privileged one. 🤔

Many more women attempt suicide than men. More men manage it because they use different methods.

This is a fact that is ignored - and it definitely shouldn't be a competition, but men do like to make it one.

I think it's a flawed argument though tbh because usually you look at the severity of outcome not the attempts - some of which will be cries for help, like the women who take an overdose but then ensure to tell several people (friends ex has done this several times and then refuses to let anybody in the door and creates a big drama).

If you used the same argument in the context of DV then you could argue that men have it worse because women are more likely to lash out at a partner and approx 70% of non reciprocal DV is committed by women going by the data. However, we usually look at the fact that far more women are seriously injured/killed rather than the fact that women lash out more, because despite that fact the men aren't dying.

But then when it comes to suicide all the same feminists suddenly want to talk about number of attempts rather than actually which sex is dying. It's selective reasoning.

Do you think they intended it as a wind up? Or they're just a bit thick/super biased? I mean, the evidence is in, they're clearly wrong, and they just kept coming back. Bizarre.

Women who don't do paid work full time are usually caring for children and families and home duties, and their working hours including unpaid duties are at least 60 hours a week.

Women pre children and older women usually work full time.

Yes.

This whole thread is so obviously a wind-up that it jumped the shark practically from the first post. I refuse to take it in any way seriously.

It's raised a few laughs, although I don't doubt that the humour is unintentional.

But something like 40% of women don't work FT.

When I was on here about 15 years ago I didn't see my partner's behaviour as a problem. I had extremely low expectations of men and thought that you had to put up with a certain amount of crap because men just weren't empathetic/communicative etc and that was just the way it was if you wanted to have a relationship with them.

I am very glad that MNers were able to gently probe at this and show me that it was reasonable to have higher standards and I didn't have to put up with being controlled and belittled and that that wasn't healthy for me or my child.

What I got from that was a kind of "spidey sense" that I then did use on future threads towards other MNers struggling with their partners' behaviour and attitude towards them. Sometimes it would come across just from a couple of lines in a post. I couldn't put my finger on what it was, but I have now - basically, I was noticing contempt, which is one of Gottman's four "relationship horsemen". I believe he actually says this is the most destructive and it is extremely unlikely to come back from it.

SO many men have contempt for their wives/partners and this comes across in the woman's thread about the way he relates to her.

The opposite of this is care for each other, or even just basic human regard/respect for one's partner as a human being, not just as "woman" or "wife" which is a role, a job someone is supposed to fulfil and so it's perfectly reasonable (in an abuser's head) to use any number of tactics to "make" her fulfil that role if she is not doing so of her own accord. Once I realised that my partner didn't see me as equal to him and didn't see my opinion, experience, preferences etc as being important or valid compared with his, I couldn't stay in the relationship and I could see it in so many other relationships. It's SO common. And while it goes from women to men too, it seems almost accepted in men to women, I think because our culture is so entrenched in patriarchy in general. And I think this is the issue and why it comes across like MN is anti-men. It's not anti-men, but it is anti-sexism and a surprising amount of men are sexist and give that away very easily.

As they should be. Those of us with good men are lucky
My man is not good and not is he bad. He is him and I've had to learn to understand him. I had to recognise that he doesn't always think, react, agree, see things as I do. I had to realise that what causes him anxiety is nothing that triggers me and vice versa. I had to come to the fact that his way of communicating is quite different to mine, same as his thinking process.

I could easily describe him here in away that everyone would shout that he is an abusive narcissist. The reality is that he could go to a men led forum and claim that I'm an emotional manipulator who thinks she's always right.

Thankfully, we have the emotional intelligence to recognise that we are are different in many ways and that doesn't make us good or bad. We had heated moments, moments when we were seconds from ending things, times when we truly despised eachother, but we carried through these learning more about eachother and live always pulling us back to eachother. Because ultimately, for all we still had to learn about eachother and adapt, there was so much that we shared but that was easy to take for granted once we passed the honeymoon stage.

I like to think that I'm a good fair person but it took some time to realise that some things about me are real triggers for my OH and could be described as negatives.

20 years later and we are such a solid couple. We respect our differences and have learnt to meet halfways with these. I do make more efforts than him in that way but he makes more efforts in our relationship in other ways. All in all, we balance incredibly well.

I dare to think what the advice would have been if I'd ever posted about our arguments here! Without a doubt I would have been told to run for the hills! I opted to fight for the relationship I chose for good reasons and it was all worth it.

I really don't think that the women on this forum hate all men...That's nonsensical.

Instead they are calling out the men who:

-try to control and gaslight
-abuse and rape
-can't be arsed to look after their kids and/or pay for their upkeep
-cheat
-are hooked on porn and only see women as sex objects.

The issue is that the above behaviour is unfortunately widespread and it is important for women to talk about and challenge it rather than be expected to put up with it or things will never change.

Just 'hoping' that your daughters won't experience this is a bit naive.

Unless we keep voicing our concerns and force society to change, then women and girls will continue to be targeted.

The first step of change is for society to admit that there is a problem with the behaviour of a large proportion of men to start with.

If you try to pretend this is not an issue then things won't improve.

I suggest you start to have a look at the stats for how many women and girls experience sexual violence in the UK to open your eyes.

-86% of women aged 18-24 said they had been sexually harassed in a public space
-798,000 women across England and Wales are raped or sexually assaulted every year. That’s 1 in 30 women
-On average, 2 women a week are killed by a current or former partner in England and Wales.

Convictions rates for rape are pitifully low too.

Women don't hate men, they hate men who hurt them...and often get away with it.

a post says “great relationship, today partner upset me and we couldn’t see eye to eye” and everyone calls the poor guy a narcissist

I’m still agog at this epistemological mess from the OP’s opening post.

I have literally NEVER known a woman who didn't work and run the family too. In working class women it has absolutely always been the norm, and only in American 50s sitcoms did women not work for money as well as working to run the house and family.

And I don't know any woman who only works a couple of days has retired early. Every woman I know well works at least 4 days a week and is in their 50s or 60s.

Many more women attempt suicide than men. More men manage it because they use different methods.

This is a fact that is ignored - and it definitely shouldn't be a competition, but men do like to make it one.

https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508

For every “lucky” woman that doesn’t work
i estimate there are 1000 that do the lions share of the family drudge work.

Absolutely this!! But it's justified by claims they're a "feminist"! They're not.

No. I think you're exaggerating. There's no such thing as 1000% and no, of course 999 posters out of 1000 don't immediately jump to LTB. A few people say this. Sometimes when it's good advice. Sometimes when I think its knee jerk, but the vast majority say nothing of the sort when discussing everyday marital arguments.
What I've noticed is an increase in the opposite with a cohort urging women to put up with very unacceptable behaviour on pain of being accused of being 'controlling', 'insecure', 'paranoid', 'unhinged', even abusive themselves for challenging their partner. These posts are by far the more dangerous.
No one is going to leave their husband over an unemptied bin just because a few MN posters say so. However they may well stay in an abusive relationship if they are gaslighted into believing they're the problem, because that often confirms their own view point.

Agreed!

Blimey, op, don't you think it's time to give up?

You were asked for examples of 'women telling women to LTB over a trivial argument' and you have managed to provide ... NONE.

Doesn't that suggest that it doesn't happen? 🙄

But the husband in that thread was a toxic idiot who didn't look after his own niece, left it to his wife, then acted like a madman when the op saved the niece from being hurt, then reacted really oddly the rest of the night.

What's normal about that??

I haven't seen people telling women in good marriages to good men to LTB. But a lot of the women who post on here are in terrible marriages to terrible men, so LTB is good advice.

I’m fairly sure I’ve voted YABU where a woman is being unreasonable, I’ve even sided with a few MIL’s!

For context, a few posts from the 'oppressed' women of mumsnet. 🤣 (pinched from another thread about how lucky women that don't have to work are).

"My sil is 44, rich and has NEVER had a job, lucky her! She has no trouble filling her day and has a great life."

"Dp earns the money then gives it to me. Why would I feel oppressed?"

"I haven't worked in 8 years and bloody love it! I got to go shopping without ds today and have a long lunch with a friend. Going to the gym now."

"My friend is married to the son of a billionaire and sometimes I have to block her on social media because her life is one long holiday."

"I dont work, I was able to be a sahm with my sons, both in 30s now. I lunch, dressmake, walk my dogs for miles, spend time with friends and family etc....I also volunteer for a small homeless charity, something I am so passionate about, being literally close to home. I feel totally fulfilled!"

" My DSis married a very high earner and has never worked a day in her life."

" My DH works 80 hours a week for a signficant amount of money, which allows me to be a SAHM and indulge myself, allow me to do all of my volunteering and my hobbies."

"I work just a few hours a week in a job I love doing, I don’t have to work for financial reasons. I’ve accidentally ended up with a really high earning DH. I enjoy having lots of time to myself, I have hobbies, an amazing spa membership and an extremely fortunate to have some really good friends whom I’m able to see nearly every week."

"My SIL is lucky enough to not have to work due to DB’s income. She has nice things, goes out for lots of lunches."

"I'm a SAHM who has teenage children and is fortunate to be married to a high earner so I haven't needed to work since having kids. We do have a lifestyle that most people would find impressive."

"I choose not to work. DH works really long shifts and odd hours so can be out of the house either days or nights, with each week being different. When the kids are grown I'll go and get some post-sahm work. Maybe in a shop, factory, cafe or something similar."

"The funniest post was Monday morning when she started by posting “it’s going to be a long week, hoping the nanny isn’t late” followed by “anyone know a place I can get nails done, not happy with the place I’ve been going as I think they overcharge and wanting a day to pamper myself a bit.”

"I feel lucky that I don't need to work. I am not getting any benefits because dh earns enough."

"I'm lucky in that I didn't have to carry on working."

"I am lucky enough not to work and stay at home with my son, as DH is a high earner. I feel extremely grateful for this every day, and try very hard not to take it for granted."