To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

@Lagoony Not true. Plenty of upper class people do not value education.

@AbstractThought Dressing totally in black is an interesting observation. I used to when I was a teenager and young adult living in a very poor area. I could only afford cheap clothes and not many. Black clothes that are cheap can look better than coloured cheap clothes, and there is less issue with potential stains so they last longer. I just saw it as a practical choice.

These people who have no shame in being unedicated are always from the most deprived backgrounda though. Multi-generational poverty is failure on society's part in not enabling some degree of social mobility. The past couple of generations have been poorer than the last, they don't actually have a chance.

@hairbearbunches Honestly you are talking far more about middle class concerns.
For the people we are talking about their issues are often more basic. But few middle class people care about those issues.
So many places have withdrawn grants from small neighbourhood charities who used to help plug some of the gaps. The place left where I live that is plugging some gaps is a cafe with an owner who wants to help the struggling people she meets all the time. If she closed I have no idea where people would go.

What about the ones who didn't go to the sixth form???

Most sixth formers going to Uni is expected really as A levels are now a stepping stone to Uni rather than standing for something themselves. We're a long way past where a few A levels was the basic entry requirement for good jobs - most are now degree requirement.

We’ve added a very significant number of people to the population since the late 90s. That has had a huge impact. The benefits or otherwise of immigration are not for this thread, but the country, certainly in the South East, feels very cramped. I personally feel there are too many people for what is actually a small island and it’s only going to get worse. 80 million prediction in the next decade. We’re like rats in cages. Everything is being thin sliced and there’s less and less of everything to go round, including space.

the beginning of stratospheric house price inflation in the late 90s also led to a feeling of hope, but disastrous in the long term.

“Because the welfare system now simply props up people’s chaotic lifestyles and enables their addictions. It also means they can just continue to have children, as many as they want, knowing the state will ultimately look after them.”

False. There is a two-child limit for UK benefits now which means that parents cannot claim child tax credit or universal credit for any third or subsequent child born after April 2017.

To boot is “has failed to increase employment levels – but it has left hundreds of thousands of households in poverty, according to the first study of its kind.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/01/two-child-limit-on-uk-welfare-benefits-has-failed-to-push-parents-into-jobs

Also a benefit cap now for all adults.

If he could gain traction with "da yoof" that revolution might just happen. Not holding my breath but I'd be behind him.

Mistress what form would this revolution take? Whenever revolution is mentioned, posters say “it wouldn’t be violent” but how would it be achieved?
Presumably you don’t mean via the ballot box?

In any society there are a minority of people who do not follow the rules and create difficulties.
But government policies can minimise this number of people or increase them.
Public policies have very much been shaped around the strongest win, and people have to look after themselves - they call it taking personal responsibility.
So we don't care if you can't access services online, or if you do not have enough data to hang on in a telephone queue. Take personal responsibility and sort your issues as an individual.

When the government and public policies tell people they do not matter, some will react to that anti socially. It is a reaction that takes on the individualism of the government. Very much fine you do not give a shit about me, I will look after myself and my family and I do not give a shit if doing what is best for us negatively impacts others.

You want people to feel part of mainstream society and that they still matter. You want people to be invested in their area and the country.

We do live in communities and people acting as part of that community does matter. We are not just individuals who all have to take personal responsibility.

Swimsong, agree with you.

I’d be really interested to know the answer to this as well. I know exactly what you mean.

@passtheajax I've definitely found the UK and Ireland worst for this kind of feral antisocial behaviour if I'm honest.

It is not about going to university. I went to a school in a very poor area. Out of about 250 pupils a year, 10 went on to university. And getting jobs was hard. But most pupils leaving did get jobs. They were not brilliant jobs, factory work, working in shops, etc. But it meant they were earning and could go out and have fun. Being unemployed is really bad for young adults.

Do other countries in western Europe have the same kind of feral people that we have here? I'm not talking about the drug addicted people who hang around town centres, but people who hate education, very entitled, are chronically violent and aggressive and who destroy their environment, make their neighbour's lives a misery etc.?

Not being particularly adept at sharing from YouTube may I offer a young lad called Ren who has a track called "She sells sea shells" which us a damning indictment of "economy" as we understand it.

He's pretty insightful and comes from a complex background. If he could gain traction with "da yoof" that revolution might just happen. Not holding my breath but I'd be behind him.

This is what I meant. No one cares enough to provide services in a way that the most disadvantaged can actually access them.

IMO urban design in other European countries where people live in flats in the town centres make social contact easier. People live literally on the high street within a few minutes walk of all kind of amenities. That makes it easier for authorities to open community centres and the like as the catchment population is right on the doorstep. Obviously in large cities it is not quite like that but still.

Really? The vast majority of all the sixth formers in my kids various schools have gone to uni. Problem is degrees are ten a penny now if most ppl have one and getting a 2.2 isn’t the same as it used to be, when just having a degree set you apart.

Nah you're not unreasonable in feeling that, it's definitely a thing. I was only a baby/ very young child in the 90s but I remember vividly that life was better and people in general were more connected, way more of a community feel. There used to be loads and loads of small/ independent businesses, pleasant areas made just for the public, people talked to each other more. Now a lot of our wealth has been siphened off to the few extremely wealthy, quite a few of them aren't even in this country so there's no chance they'll even spend it in our economy. People.spend all their measley pay on property and have nothing left to actually upkeep it or go out. Meanwhile we've had unprecedented immigration while our austerity-starved public services are crumbling. It's so sad, I feel really sorry for people who live in areas that are feeling it worst.

@AbstractThought the feeling of the nineties is hope. Loads of people have said that, it was not just about you being very young.

There was a thread a while ago on whether people should look after their parents. To me it's a no brainer - yes. Unless your parent has been truly awful to you. But they are your parents. Who else is going to do it? Same with kids. Who else is going to look after them? Pets. You've got to walk your own dog. A slide in people accepting responsibility

I have decided i wont be doing personal care for my elderly mother................because of the way carers are treated in this country @MistressoftheDarkSide has already mentioned it on this thread. Perhaps you missed it. Too many people expect others women to give up their lives to care with no reparation and then they get called scroungers or worse for doing so. There is no respect only derision. And then when the caring is over the attitude is "so what have you been doing for the last few years" If the state wants to treat carers like shit (along with the public cheering them on) then the state can do it.......oh and while im at it

There are several threads running on MN at the moment about the carers allowance scandal and how family carers are treated. The NHS workers are conspicuous by their abscence. Its like tumbleweed. Yet post a thread about how can we improve the NHS and its like a klaxon has gone off and the health workers on here (not all of them but a good amount of them) are lining up to patient blame and moan about how families arent doing enough yet post a thread about how family carers are being treated re CA and they couldnt give less of a shit!
despite the support they got during the strikes. Would that be reciprocated if family carers went on strike?!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/ami_being_unreasonable/5048517-to-bring-your-attention-to-the-carers-benefit-fraud-scandal?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/chat/5045433-carers-allowance-and-benefit-fraud?reply=134540759

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/ami_being_unreasonable/5049094-to-think-the-carers-allowance-scandal-shows-the-uncaringness-of-the-dwp#:~:text=The%20pressure%20on%20the%20prime,a%20few%20pounds%20a%20week. The threads are nowhere near as long as the NHS ones are either