To draw your attention to Mr Bates vs The Post Office

The question also arises as to where the money has gone that the postmasters paid to the Post Office to try to cover the losses from their own pockets. All of that money should be refunded.

But I guess a lot of postmasters had small losses, covered them and the system didn't go too haywire for them, so we'll never know the extent of the problem.

Also, why was the system always against the postmasters and mistresses, not in their favour?

There was some suggestion that the systems were being manipulated by Fujitsu (something both they and the Post Office denied for years), so have some of their employees made off with the cash? This is an angle which I've not seen discussed.

I have read the Wallis book - it is brilliantly researched. I am looking forward to binge watching the series this week. I am so sad for those who took their lives over this. It is truly heartbreaking 💔

It's also a huge fraud case by the Post Office on those they basically scammed money off when no money had gone missing in the first place.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this at all. I'm really not sure why you've posted?

Thanks @CatPancake

Most likely the BBC sounds one

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m000jf7j?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Haven't watched this yet but the Irish village I live in, around 30 odd years ago, the local postmistress got found out for using deceased person's pension books to line her own pockets. And what happened? there was a collection taken up by the community, even promoted in church by the priest, to raise money for her to return what she had stolen so she got away with it. I don't know what excuse she came up with, what she did was wrong.

@HPLikecraft do you know where the podcast you listened to it on is?

And the shocking thing about the pregnant lady (forgotten her name, I think she was the one in West Byfleet) was that the judge involved appeared to think she was innocent (or at least that the evidence wasn't there to convict) and certainly gave the jury a steer in that direction.

So why on earth didn't he give her a suspended sentence when she was found guilty anyway?

So many judges not using their noddles too. I know that the early cases were before the internet and social media had really taken off, but they must have been aware of the cases as time went on. The defence lawyers were a bit crap at times too, although I know they were largely trying to keep their clients out of jail.

I had no idea Paula V received her award so recently! That is shocking!

I thought it was some years ago before the full extent of the Horizon scandal was known (despite reading Nick Wallis's book, clearly didn't read it properly).

Yes Hillsborough is the other incident that springs to mind.

But these are the ones we know about. I wonder how many more of these scandals are going to happen.

I definitely think there is scope for people to be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice - and some of the lawyers involved need to be investigated by their regulatory authorities - however, the Solicitors Regulatory Authority is crap - maybe the Bar Council is more effective. There was one barrister who gave evidence at the inquiry and more or less admitted being negligent, so he should be investigated.

I am not sure any organisation should have its own prosecution powers - all should have to go via the CPS to have some degree of independence.

I know it might be complicated to bring charges against senior people at the Post Office and Fujitsu over this but surely there is some evidence of perjury or perverting the course of justice? It really is scandalous that people who cause such wilful devastation always seem to be rewarded with honours, payouts and promotions, and are rarely punished. It's worrying that a company as incompetent and sinister as Fujitsu is so deeply embedded into our public service infrastructure.

There is also a documentary about the real people portrayed in this drama on ITVX. Jess, the woman who tried to kill herself, lost all memory of her childhood due to the ECT treatment and is still on medication. Institutions and corporations shouldn't escape justice when they have done that to people. Does anyone know if the Post Office can still conduct its own criminal investigations and prosecutions?

I have been following this for years, the BBC has reported on it many times, Panorama made a documentary about it in 2020, here it is.

The people responsible for this need considerably prison time, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

I watched the whole thing. I did know about it as I worked in a post office for a time, and I think it was brilliantly portrayed. I am glad that it's raising awareness now. What amazing strong people to fight it!
It's just astonishing the the post office are still getting away with not compensating people!

This has been in the press for year @CharlottePimpernel . Surprised you didn’t know but so sorry you were affected.

I agree with this!

I know that a suicide was involved, should that actually be manslaughter?

I don't think I have ever watched anything that made me so angry. Possibly, Hillsborough and all the lies told about the fans.
They knew, they bloody knew and still destroyed peoples' lives.
The people responsible should be dealt with by the criminal courts.
My thoughts are with all the victims of this appalling miscarriage of justice.

Placemarking to join the conversation when I've watched it.

She received her CBE in the 2019 New Year Honours List for services to the Post Office and to charity. They don’t say who nominates a person but honours are authorised /agreed by committees run by the Cabinet Office (who are meant to do due diligence) and then once agreed put to the PM and finally the Queen (now King) for authorisation.

It would be unusual for the Royals to block an award once it has been through this process: so in short in her case it would predominantly be a Civil Service and political decision.

This is tragic for all the victims.

And people will still frequently claim that public services "should be nationalised" because it would make everything better. Reminder: The Post Office is owned by the government - it wasn't privatised like Royal Mail was. So, just how much worse could this situation possibly be?!

Essentially it's another government IT scandal. Yes, Fujitsu is a private company, but so are all the providers of government IT projects.

Who said Paula Vennalls, should get an award and what was it for?

This is shocking

Agree with all pp, this is vital viewing and a horrendous and almost unbelievable saga for those poor people.

Also just a point to note, after visiting Alan Bates official campaign website - the Post Office and Royal Mail are two completely separate entities so mustn't be mixed up. Royal Mail was sold off in 2012 and privatised, but the Post Office was and is solely owned by the Government. And the Post Office is what we are talking about here.

A postmaster from my town was involved in this scandal and accused narrowly avoiding jail. Sadly he died from cancer before his name was cleared