"my brother died of ovarian cancer"

[SCMocha]

attention-grabbing headline for this article from the independent:

inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/ian-duncan-deputy-speaker-house-lords-interview-brother-died-ovarian-cancer-1125221

ovarian cancer apparently "predominantly affects females" (!)

the article talks about the fault of health care providers for not understanding the needs of trans people, rather than focusing on the confusion that might arise from someone registering with a GP as 'male' who then doesn't get smear test notifications.

Maybe biological sex isn't a social construct after all...

@MyMorningBrew

Maybe biological sex isn't a social construct after all...

You could be right!

@MyMorningBrew

Maybe biological sex isn't a social construct after all...

You'd think that would be obvious, but.....

FFS. Sex markers on medical records. How is this complicated?

While I am sensitive to the fact that Lord Duncan has lost his much loved sibling, surely each of us has to take responsibility for our own health up to a point?

Anyone who has transitioned (whether medically or not) KNOWS what sex they are and hopefully have been fully informed of if and where their risk of health conditions changes and what they need to look our for.

Be kind - affirm someone's chosen identity, don't deadname or misgender. But if something bad happens because of you respecting an individual's wishes and recording them as the sex they tell you they are, rather than the reality of their biology, it's your fault.

I'd also be interested to know whether messing about with hormones in such extreme ways and for such long periods of time increases the likelihood of certain hormone mediated cancers.

I just saw this - I was at the 'ovarian cancer predominately affects females' - WTF?

Surely the easiest way to solve this is to ensure that all people, regardless of their gender identity, are registered as their biological sex in all medical paperwork?

Be kind - affirm someone's chosen identity, don't deadname or misgender. But if something bad happens because of you respecting an individual's wishes and recording them as the sex they tell you they are, rather than the reality of their biology, it's your fault.

Exactly. What's the point of this article? Biology will out, no matter how strongly people would prefer it not to. I'm staggered by the amount of media time and focus that a tiny, tiny number of the population are able to obtain.

The campaign is focused on breast cancer, which trans women are more likely to suffer than men, and trans men less likely to than women.

Because trans men generally have mastectomies?

They estimate that the risk of breast cancer in trans women to be about three times less than for cisgender women, but about 48 times higher than for cisgender men.

This comparison is misleading because breast cancer is relatively common in women, but very rare in men.

Breast and chest cancers are some of the most common cancers and some of the easiest to detect early by self-checking

Does she mean breast or chest? Is she implying that you can check for lung cancer with an external examination?

Parts of this article almost seem to understand cancer as a badge of identity. It's misleading because it assumes that trans/cis infers that somebody has had specific hormonal treatment or surgery, and it encourages the sense that the priority is affirming identity, not speaking clearly.

However, I think the bits of the article that relate specifically to Sean's care are good. It would be good if people could be comfortable with the idea that sex is a simple biological reality, unconnected to your inner identity. You know, the thing feminists have been suggesting for a long time.

Also, ovarian cancer is referred to as the 'silent killer' in women so surely the concern here should be about the late diagnosis and poor outcomes for all women.

I'd also be interested to know whether messing about with hormones in such extreme ways and for such long periods of time increases the likelihood of certain hormone mediated cancers.

According to the article this could be a possibility:

Endometrial cancer – the lining of the uterus – can also be a problem for trans men, but not enough is known about it. Some data suggests that taking testosterone can trigger a thickening of the lining of the uterus, increasing the chance of cancer, but other data contradicts this, according to Dr Berner.

“We ask trans men who are on testosterone but who have not had a hysterectomy to go for an ultrasound every two years,” she says.

Correct me of I'm wrong, but I didn't think there was general screening for ovarian cancer. Yes there are tests that can indicate it, but its not a widespread screening like we do for cervical or bowel cancer. I thought ovarian cancer was hard to diagnose as the symptoms are fairly general.

Yes there should be a safety net in a patients records to add tests, so if a patient changes their record from female to male then reminders for smear tests should be added. But trans people should also be aware of what 'hardware' they possess and what screening it may require.

Can anyone make head or tail of this
" The campaign is focused on breast cancer, which trans women are more likely to suffer than men, and trans men less likely to than women. But this is just one cancer of many that arise in parts of the body that, for trans people, can mean they go unscreened. Sometimes because, like Sean Duncan, they exist as part of their previous self; the psychological disconnection from which, while understandable, can prevent early detection"

I don't know who is at risk of what here, If I knew who was male and who was female, then I would, but I cant tell form this word soup

I've just read this and it's terribly sad. Ovarian cancer is horrible, lost a close friend to it myself, who was undiagnosed until it was too late. What I don't understand is how people can't see that it just proves what we've been saying all along. That biological sex matters, that accurate medical records are required to give everyone the appropriate medical care however they identify. It's what the nasty feminists have been shouting all along .. that sex matters.

The article is a bit muddled. You can't have a policy of using euphemisms and also be clear.

The article acknowledges that men get breast cancer, but also suggests that 'chest' should be used for trans men.

This highlights the utter ridiculousness of TWAW and TMAM - obfuscating your actual sex on your medical records is dangerous. If you want to 'live life as the opposite sex' (whatever that means to you), surely anyone with reason recognises that is not the same as actually being the opposite sex. But then I find the conflation of sex and gender to be regressive and insulting in addition to the obvious dangers of it.

80% of this article could be covered by ‘trans people retain their biological self and the health risks associated with that and if the nhs records the biological sex and books suitable screenings for it trans lives will be saved. My brother could have been saved.’

I'd also be interested to know whether messing about with hormones in such extreme ways and for such long periods of time increases the likelihood of certain hormone mediated cancers.

I do know of someone who recently died of primary liver cancer. At the point of diagnosis the first thing the oncologist did was recommend discontinuing testosterone treatment. (Liver cancer is more common in men than women, to do with testosterone).
I couldn't comment beyond that but it's in my box marked "watch for further evidence".

The thing that stands out for me is that this all happened in the US:

At the time, the problems for Sean were logistical. He didn’t have proper immigration status, so he could not work, and without work he couldn’t afford proper health insurance

So they’re trying to imply that screening is missing trans individuals and putting them at risk, when the reality seems to be no health insurance, no screening.

80% of this article could be covered by ‘trans people retain their biological self and the health risks associated with that and if the nhs records the biological sex and books suitable screenings for it trans lives will be saved. My brother could have been saved

I agree. But what is not clear is how the nhs could have saved the brother when he was living in the US without proper health insurance.

@timeisnotaline

80% of this article could be covered by ‘trans people retain their biological self and the health risks associated with that and if the nhs records the biological sex and books suitable screenings for it trans lives will be saved. My brother could have been saved.’

Yes.

It's also really unfair on healthcare staff to place obstacles in the way of their provision of effective screening and treatment.

Cancer does not give a fuck about your pronouns.

@Gingercake2018

I'd also be interested to know whether messing about with hormones in such extreme ways and for such long periods of time increases the likelihood of certain hormone mediated cancers.

I listened to an interview with Buck Angel, I think it was Gender A Wider Lens, and he was saying that testosterone completely destroyed his uterus and he had to have an emergency life saving hysterectomy. I know he is a controversial figure but he is very vocal about the physical harm caused by denying biological sex.

My brother could have been saved

From the article he moved to America and couldn't afford medical insurance so access to medical care would have been patchy, whatever the circumstances. Such a backwards country.

It's not appropriate to assume that transmen have had mastectomies so the individual risk for a transman will vary.

It's not appropriate to assume a transwoman will have had hormones or surgical interventions so comparisons of breast cancer risk between transwomen and females/males will vary.

Ovarian cancer is a silent killer so it is appropriate to counsel transmen on the reality of female cancers and the realities and immutable nature of one's biology. I believe in the past that ensuring that the transitioning person was aware that they would not, and could not change sex was stressed - possibly more than today.

The correct terminology for breast cancer is breast cancer - for both men and women. Men get breast cancer - this has been the language used by campaigns for decades.

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