Puberty blockers effects on bone density

(39 Posts)
Mollyollydolly Tue 04-May-21 13:40:15

New from Michael Biggs: Puberty blockers' effects on bone density, from the published results of the Tavistock trial.

"My conclusion: ‘It is obvious that a substantial minority of the girls on GnRHa suffered from abnormally low bone density."

www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-effects-bone-density/

OP’s posts: |
persistentwoman Tue 04-May-21 13:46:28

This is so outrageous. Yet again confirming the experimental nature of 'trans' medicine on children below the age of consent. This is only the start of decades of revelations about the harm happening to children at the behest of a small group of narcissistic adults with unethical access to the NHS & government institutions.

persistentwoman Tue 04-May-21 13:46:59

And thank you to TT for yet again exposing what is happening to children.

AnotherLass Tue 04-May-21 14:15:41

This bit is so damning

"The fact that adolescents undergoing puberty suppression failed to accrue bone mass—to the point where a significant minority ended up with abnormally low bone density—inspired Butler and his coauthors to make two recommendations (Joseph, Ting, and Butler 2019). One is to reduce the monitoring of bone density, which has ‘significant financial implications for healthcare providers’. The other is to change the computation of Z-scores; ‘reference ranges may need to be re-defined for this select patient cohort’. When a measure provides inconvenient results, stop measuring or choose another scale: that is how transgender medicine is practiced at the Tavistock."

Floisme Tue 04-May-21 14:32:07

They spotted a potential problem and their recommended solution was to either stop monitoring it or change the method of measuring?

Please tell me I've read that incorrectly.

PopperUppleton Tue 04-May-21 14:40:17

My jaw has just dropped reading that bit! I actually gasped. The recommendation is that these data shouldn't be collected, or that a different scale should be used? Really? Because they provide evidence of harm to the recipients of these experimental drugs?

Poor, poor children.

MrsTerryPratchett Tue 04-May-21 14:44:08

I had a friend who went through very early menopause. Very early, so 20s. One of the major issues her doctor was concerned about was bone density. Imagine a lifetime of osteoporosis, rather than 'just' the years after menopause.

WarriorN Tue 04-May-21 14:56:19

Bloody hell:

The Tavistock never follow up GIDS patients once they turn 18*--*not even those who graduate to the adult Gender Identity Clinic in the Tavistock Trust itself*--*and so there is no way of knowing whether patients who experience abnormally low Z-scores for years in adolescence have experienced osteoporosis as adults.

And the fact that this

inspired Butler and his coauthors to make two recommendations (*Joseph, Ting, and Butler 201919*_*). One is to reduce the monitoring of bone density, which has ‘significant financial implications for healthcare providers’. The other is to change the computation of Z-scores; ‘reference ranges may need to be re-defined for this select patient cohort’. When a measure provides inconvenient results, stop measuring or choose another scale: that is how transgender medicine is practiced at the Tavistock.

Whatwouldscullydo Tue 04-May-21 15:02:28

They spotted a potential problem and their recommended solution was to either stop monitoring it or change the method of measuring?

Please tell me I've read that incorrectly

I think it was dr will malone although not entirely sure of the name he's a dr who has posted about this on twitter I hope I got his name right blush

He posted about this a good while back. Something about using these children in the ranges so that they become with in "normal range" as opposed to outliers on the low end of the scale.

Very simplistic translation I know, I'm.not sure how how explain it really. But yes thats the gist of it.

I.would like to know how that benefits trans patients to alter how this info is looked at. It prevents adequate monitoring

NecessaryScene1 Tue 04-May-21 15:08:54

Yes, I remember him writing about that before. It fits with the whole postmodern thing - they don't like the concept of "normal".

Perhaps low bone density is "normal" for "trans kids".

Don't force them into your cisnormative Western health standards.

I'm sure Action for Trans Health (or whoever those loonies were) would approve of this sort of thing. "Trans Health" is quite different from "Cis Health".

InvisibleDragon Tue 04-May-21 15:52:07

Oh wow, those are scary numbers. That's really bad.

WarriorN Tue 04-May-21 16:01:44

There was a post on a thread recently of research showing that trans identified children /teens had lower bone density already, as if to say, this isn't news, completely failing to see that therefore, this is even more important for those individuals.

(The conclusion in the study was that the young people had lower vitamin d levels due to less outside activities.)

So many young autistic teens I know spend hours online and don't participate in outdoor sports or meet friends in the park etc.

VickyEadieofThigh Tue 04-May-21 16:04:56

MrsTerryPratchett

I had a friend who went through very early menopause. Very early, so 20s. One of the major issues her doctor was concerned about was bone density. Imagine a lifetime of osteoporosis, rather than 'just' the years after menopause.

A close family relative of mine was an elite (I'm talking national champion) athlete age 13-16. From that point, because she had not started menstruating (low body fat and intense training), she began suffering stress fractures in her feet. It took 3 years to restore her bone density (even after she did begin menstruating, aged almost 17, having gained weight and stopped training) to a good enough level for her to begin training again.

The impact on her overall health was not limited to bone density; she has also suffered some other issues, directly related to this. It's almost certain she will never be able to compete at the very top again.

The impact of delayed puberty is bad enough, without dosing children with drugs to impose it.

InvisibleDragon Tue 04-May-21 16:34:39

There was a post on a thread recently of research showing that trans identified children /teens had lower bone density already

This could well be related to the prevalence of eating disorders among trans children.

WarriorN Tue 04-May-21 16:41:36

Yes that too.,

Helleofabore Tue 04-May-21 17:32:24

Mollyollydolly

Thanks for sharing.

Might be a good resource for the Break it down thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=27

MrsTerryPratchett Tue 04-May-21 18:31:15

The impact of delayed puberty is bad enough, without dosing children with drugs to impose it.

sad

MnaWomanIreland Tue 04-May-21 21:09:11

There was a long term study done in Bristol university in UK which studied the effect of late puberty on bone density. Over 6,300 people on the study. It found that there were bone density issues as adults when children started puberty later (naturally ie without blocking).

research-information.bris.ac.uk/en/publications/association-between-age-at-puberty-and-bone-accrual-from-10-to-25

Sophoclesthefox Tue 04-May-21 21:48:26

Floisme

They spotted a potential problem and their recommended solution was to either stop monitoring it or change the method of measuring?

Please tell me I've read that incorrectly.

I could weep.

How does this pass any kind of ethics scrutiny?

How?

quixote9 Tue 04-May-21 23:51:37

AnotherLass

This bit is so damning

"The fact that adolescents undergoing puberty suppression failed to accrue bone mass—to the point where a significant minority ended up with abnormally low bone density—inspired Butler and his coauthors to make two recommendations (Joseph, Ting, and Butler 2019). One is to reduce the monitoring of bone density, which has ‘significant financial implications for healthcare providers’. The other is to change the computation of Z-scores; ‘reference ranges may need to be re-defined for this select patient cohort’. When a measure provides inconvenient results, stop measuring or choose another scale: that is how transgender medicine is practiced at the Tavistock."

/*Speechless*/

Ereshkigalangcleg Wed 05-May-21 01:09:07

Reading this thread for the first time. Shocking, even when you think you're beyond being shocked by this stuff.

pallisers Wed 05-May-21 01:20:40

My sister runs a bone density clinic. This will have such awful effects for these children.

NecessaryScene1 Wed 05-May-21 06:37:11

Don't bone-shame trans kids.

Healthy at all bone densities. hmm

(It's quite easy to speak Woke. The difficult bit is suppressing the accompanying eye-roll).

persistentwoman Wed 05-May-21 06:58:54

How does this pass any kind of ethics scrutiny ?

It doesn't does it? None of the treatment of 'transitioning' children meets any acceptable level of medical, scientific, psychological or ethical standards of treatment.

My rage at what is happening to these children is immense. Their rage and despair will be off the scale when they reach adulthood and look at the consequences for their bodies - forever in need of permanent medication and treatment with so many of the adult choices about fertility, sexual partners and experiences lost to them.

Medically induced bone thinning for no other reason than adults were unable to say to "No" them - "You're an unhappy child and this is dangerous life altering medicine / procedures. Society protects children from making these decisions until you are old enough to fully consent. No."

Whatwouldscullydo Wed 05-May-21 07:04:49

It doesn't does it? None of the treatment of 'transitioning' children meets any acceptable level of medical, scientific, psychological or ethical standards of treatment

Given the Tavistock own report stating there was no improvement in mental health.

Girls are the new majority cohort and blockers make them.shorter which is not great for passing as a boy/man.

The bone issues will make playing sports alot more difficult

And of course in males blockers make any future surgeries more complicated due to lack.of development.

You really do have to ask what's it all for...

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