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Two new Times articles on Tavistock and disciplinary action against David Bell (whistleblower)

(44 Posts)
ahagwearsapointybonnet Sat 05-Dec-20 00:24:44

Here
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/judges-could-not-get-data-about-gender-treatment-783z5d9x8

and www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-clinic-whistleblower-faces-sack-rtkl09907

OP’s posts: |
ColourMagic Sat 05-Dec-20 00:59:27

Can someone post a Times Share Token for those important articles please ...

rogdmum Sat 05-Dec-20 01:48:34

Share tokens

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/88b23d78-3678-11eb-b015-3b650b0f0101?shareToken=cc4e8c3e1e5de06d442ebe6b83c211be

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3cc89b74-3677-11eb-b015-3b650b0f0101?shareToken=a8d6bdac0856080d0ea1a893d9b77930

yourhairiswinterfire Sat 05-Dec-20 02:14:39

It's mind boggling how people are still defending this, isn't it? These articles should knock everyone sick. So many kids will have been let down 😔

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown Sat 05-Dec-20 02:17:00

Thanks for the share tokens rogdmum.

This reminds me that Sonia Appleby, the child safeguarding lead at the Tavistock & Portman trust, has an employment tribunal against the trust scheduled for next year, in similar circumstances to Dr David Bell.

Seems like gunning for anyone who cares about children's welfare is standard operating procedure at the trust.

NotBadConsidering Sat 05-Dec-20 02:56:24

GIDS is promoted as the expert service in this field. Repeatedly, the judges asked for crucial data on its patient group. Repeatedly, the clinic failed to provide it. How many of the children referred for puberty blockers had autism or other mental health diagnoses? The clinic could not say.

How many went on to take the cross-sex hormones that would make them sterile? The clinic could not say.

What were the age ranges of the referrals since the clinic started sending under-16s for experimental treatment? Again, no one was counting.

Monumentally shocking.

OhLittleBoreOfWhabylon Sat 05-Dec-20 03:09:37

One clinician described some of the patient group as “among the most disturbed children [they] had seen. However the disturbance is framed as a gender identity issue and once that happens it becomes sacrosanct and cannot be questioned.”

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it?

BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero Sat 05-Dec-20 03:47:19

Dr Bell would appreciate some digging help, should anyone have a spade to spare.

squirrel99nz Sat 05-Dec-20 04:40:44

Following this with interested from New Zealand - where I haven't seen a single media agency report on it...they are all too scared...

pinkprosseco Sat 05-Dec-20 04:49:54

If this was any other field of medicine or psychiatry there would be a public and professional outcry. Look at the public concern over the Covid vaccine which is a lifesaving immunisation. I can't believe the Tavistock can operate like this. Beyond shocked.

Cwenthryth Sat 05-Dec-20 04:52:17

Thanks for the notification of digging!

From Dr Bell’s CJ page:
In his role as Staff Governor at the Tavistock, David was approached by a large number of clinicians who were working or had worked on the Tavistock Gender Identity Development service (GIDS). They raised very serious concerns about GIDS and David wrote a report which was critical of GIDS. See more in the Guardian here and also here.

As a result David has had to deal with a number of challenges from the Trust and has needed to have ongoing legal advice in order to manage his dealings with the Trust Management. Since the original report was submitted GIDS has come under increasing scrutiny and is now the subject of an external review being conducted by NHS England.

David Bell has continued to speak and write about issues of concern in relation to the care of young people with gender dysphoria including appearing at the launch of the Detransitioner Network in 2019. He contributed a Foreword to Heather Brunskell Evans and Michele Moore ed. Inventing Transgender Children and Young People.

The guardian articles linked from the CJ page:
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/03/tavistock-centre-gender-identity-clinic-accused-fast-tracking-young-adults (Nov 2018)

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos (Feb 2019)

Cwenthryth Sat 05-Dec-20 04:56:05

The clinic was also asked how many young people had asked for puberty blockers but were refused them because they were not deemed competent to give consent. The clinic could not say “whether this situation had ever arisen”

WTAF?!? They admitted in court that potentially they never decline a request for PBs?!?

McDuffy Sat 05-Dec-20 06:43:50

The wheels are falling off, thanks to the brave oriole speaking up.
I dug a few days ago 💪

RedToothBrush Sat 05-Dec-20 08:09:12

Its almost as if they are trying to protect themselves against potential evidence of malpractice being exposed.

I hope Dr Bell is fine.

Ironically, i though its not clear what the exact issue is here, I see no good outcome for the Tavistock for this.

If they don't dismiss/take action against him, he has grounds for complaining against his treatment as victimisation and harassment over whistleblowing.

If they do dismiss/take action against him, he has grounds for complaining against his treatment as victimisation and harassment over whistleblowing.

Either way it has the potential to create the Barbara Streisand Effect...

highame Sat 05-Dec-20 08:09:26

I expect that we'll have a parliamentary select committee hearing on this, whatya think? That's the minimum but hopefully a Public Enquiry

Whatwouldscullydo Sat 05-Dec-20 08:17:44

No data
No investigation
No facts figures or followups
Anyone questioning sacked or disciplined

But remember everyone we are the bad guys....

SisterWendyBuckett Sat 05-Dec-20 08:32:40

What's happening to Dr David Bell is shameful. This is a psychiatric expert, a specialist, with many years of clinical experience. Hugely respected in his field.

Everything he's written about has been done with care, consideration and - above all - concern for the safeguarding of children and young people.

What a toll this is taking on those who have the courage to speak out.

RedToothBrush Sat 05-Dec-20 08:33:15

And the other article has two very shocking paragraphs:

The report included testimonies from ten staff members, who claimed that youngsters with complex histories of sexual abuse or trauma or autism and other mental health issues were being sent to the clinic “on a conveyor belt” towards transition, without sufficient investigation of their reasons, and without the youngsters’ full understanding of the consequences. The clinicians said they were seeing a “very substantial group of young people who become radicalised online and take up a trans identity as a solution to other problems”, but to say so was considered heresy.

Why is this not being taken more seriously as potential online radicalisation? We know there is a massive issue with this in today's society but we seem to only be concerned with Islamic or Far Right radicalisation or with ProAna websites. There has also been mumuring of an issue online connected to suicide and self harm, which has been covered by the BBC and some of the national press with indications from Johnson's government that they would do something about it, but its never been put into the context of large charitable organisations or prominent activists doing the same thing in a way which is viewed as somehow socially acceptable as its not just on the 'nasty internet' but has seeped into the mainstream via powerful social circles.

As i say we know there is a problem with political radicalisation online in a range of subjects including some which are not unrelated to part of the trans debate. We accept this as an issue and truth which need attention, monitoring and action where required. But no one is questioning how this is being amplified by institutions and individuals who should be primarily concerned about safeguarding vulnerable persons. Why?

One clinician described some of the patient group as “among the most disturbed children [they] had seen. However the disturbance is framed as a gender identity issue and once that happens it becomes sacrosanct and cannot be questioned.”

What actually happens here if these children are given drugs to fix a problem which is highly inappropriate for their circumstances?

Is there a prevalence for this within the trans community? Is this something we should be concerned about because a cohort of highly disturbed children being untouchable and what this could mean for the future especially if underlying issues are overlooked?

None of this is pretty reading. It actively pushes potential issues that the trans community has tried to dismiss as prejudiced stereotypes. However this is problematic if it is backed up with substance. We already know that there is an issue with over representation of sex offenders presenting with gender identity issues, which begs questions which are actively being shoved under the carpet. If there is a connection between abuse and gender identity on multiple levels and age then we need to have a good understanding of whats going on and why for numerous safeguarding reasons both for the individuals concerned - particularly children and anyone this may later affect.

Equally if there isnt a connection it would be just as helpful to dismiss concerns of this nature once and for all.

Whistleblowing requires investigation. Especially when you have multiple people all raising similar concerns and an institution where the high court is actively saying that they've been driving a coach and horses through basic safeguarding principles without any thought, or concern about the recording of essential data in an experiment situation.

RedToothBrush Sat 05-Dec-20 08:34:37

highame

I expect that we'll have a parliamentary select committee hearing on this, whatya think? That's the minimum but hopefully a Public Enquiry

I can feel a public inquiry coming on.

Its not an if but a when.

It might take years yet, but its coming.

Dogman Sat 05-Dec-20 08:39:10

Wonder what they did with the £1.3m they got to track outcomes back in early 2019...

OvaHere Sat 05-Dec-20 09:05:53

Great articles. The treatment of David Bell is appalling.

Tootsweets23 Sat 05-Dec-20 09:06:39

Polly Carmichael must be absolutely shitting herself.

VortexofBloggery Sat 05-Dec-20 09:10:37

Related to the lack of follow up on regret / detrans by Tavistock - James Caspian is still to take his case against Bath Spa University ( who blocked his Masters research in detransition as they deemed it to be "politically incorrect") to the European Courts, there is a good article explaining what happened here (and another digging op) www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/22/my-battle-with-the-transgender-thoughtpolice/

Not to derail, hopefully there is some momentum building up on a few fronts.

Datun Sat 05-Dec-20 09:31:04

squirrel99nz

Following this with interested from New Zealand - where I haven't seen a single media agency report on it...they are all too scared...

One clinician described some of the patient group as “among the most disturbed children [they] had seen. However the disturbance is framed as a gender identity issue and once that happens it becomes sacrosanct and cannot be questioned.”

This is Lang's sacred caste defence. She knew, just like the priesthood, popular children's entertainers, etc, that once these groups are accepted as inviolate, certain people will be drawn to them.

Datun Sat 05-Dec-20 09:32:45

Cwenthryth

*The clinic was also asked how many young people had asked for puberty blockers but were refused them because they were not deemed competent to give consent. The clinic could not say “whether this situation had ever arisen”*

WTAF?!? They admitted in court that potentially they never decline a request for PBs?!?

I don't think it means that. It means they never turned down a request based on not believing a child could consent. They turned down requests, based on other things, but not that specifically.

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