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Defending biology should mean no representation?

(33 Posts)
TheWordWomanIsTaken Sat 21-Nov-20 09:38:14

If this doesn't set out the agenda in clear plain sight I don't know what will.
I simply cannot get my head around why organisations and individuals sign in support - do they actually just not understand what they are reading? Can they really not see the legitimate concerns that women have?
I really feel like I have to step away from reading this stuff. It is warping my sense of reality where I'm beginning to feel like I am the outrider in all this and everyone 'gets' it except me. I really fear for my children in this new world where no-one should have representation unless they agree.

gcn.ie/irish-lgbtq-community-stand-irishsolidarit-transphobia-trans-day-remembrance/

OP’s posts: |
Escapeplanning Sat 21-Nov-20 10:02:53

It's very overwrought. Well done LGB Alliance, you have definitely got them rattled.

If everything is perfect already as claimed here then there wouldn't be any opposition. All this actually seems to do is tell bigot and transphobia over and over which is the sum total of counter arguments isn't it?

gardenbird48 Sat 21-Nov-20 10:23:12

And signed by Amnesty International and Amnesty Ireland and the Women’s Council!!!
Amnesty are supposed to be protecting people’s basic human rights not campaigning to remove them!!

StillAFeminist Sat 21-Nov-20 10:33:30

So so disappointed in Amnesty International, really regret all the money I donated over the years.

Apollo440 Sat 21-Nov-20 11:55:35

Self id was snuck in with abortion rights. People are now pointing this out. Their response. Lie that it was a public debate. That's all they do, lie and darvo.

MichelleofzeResistance Sat 21-Nov-20 12:12:52

It needs to be pointed out and squarely faced in the public eye: this is a political position that regards those who do not unconditionally conform to their beliefs are subhuman, and do not deserve and therefore should not have entitlement to equal (or at times its expressed as not have entitlement full stop) to legal, civil or human rights. This includes even human rights not to be raped, attacked and murdered as frequently evidenced in the 'diaf' and 'kerb stomp' type postings and memes.

Not only does this need to be made very clear that this is the belief, and this faction with this belief are being supported by many establishments such as the North Yorks Police (that's a very interesting one to unpack) that equal access to the law etc should be dependent on the person having the 'right' political beliefs.....

Jesus, am I actually having to say this? In 2020? A few days after Remembrance Day?

But it should also be put squarely in front of the general public which historical groups have shared these interesting beliefs, and what atrocities and human rights catastrophes, and massive international public war crimes trials followed the enacting of those beliefs.

It has been thought in the past by millions who voted for it and supported it that people practicing a particular faith or following a particular political party (or not following a particular political party) or the colour of their skin, or their genetic heritage were reasons to regard them as legally subhuman. We spent most of the 20th century fighting for a better world to live in based on suppressing this appalling prejudice, bigotry and supremacism by an elite who wanted to control and punish everyone not like them. Now 20 years out of the 20th century, here we bloody go again.

MichelleofzeResistance Sat 21-Nov-20 12:16:07

It is in essence a religious intolerance.

It refuses to live alongside agnostics or atheists.

SophocIestheFox Sat 21-Nov-20 12:54:04

I wouldn’t be signing anything that rambling and incoherent, regardless of what position it was advancing. Really needs editing down- did all those organisations honestly read it all??

What is it that they actually want to happen? Maybe if they looked at the five demands of Woman’s Place they could get some ideas of what a mission statement looks like 😬 then people could decide if they agree with the aims or not.

Defaultname Sat 21-Nov-20 13:23:01

"We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation".

There's a thing to say...and for Amnesty to sign!

TheWordWomanIsTaken Sat 21-Nov-20 14:22:06

It's the polar position of screaming for trans rights (whatever that actually means) against demanding women's rights are removed.
In some ways I'm glad this is out in the open - it is going down a storm on twitter.
But utterly unbelievable that they feel brave enough to state this publicly. Remove women's rights? I am so sick of all this.

OP’s posts: |
XXOnly Sat 21-Nov-20 14:46:07

BeLonGTo are rapidly becoming as bad as, if not worse, than Mermaids. Worries me that vulnerable young people will engage with this group. Deliberately twisting language and the law.

HecatesCats Sat 21-Nov-20 15:20:44

Amnesty's 2021 Campaigns schedule:

1) Remove political representation from disobedient women
2) Ban use of women, girl & female
3) Surrogacy farms for uterus havers

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark Sat 21-Nov-20 15:42:26

MichelleofzeResistance

It needs to be pointed out and squarely faced in the public eye: this is a political position that regards those who do not unconditionally conform to their beliefs are subhuman, and do not deserve and therefore should not have entitlement to equal (or at times its expressed as not have entitlement full stop) to legal, civil or human rights. This includes even human rights not to be raped, attacked and murdered as frequently evidenced in the 'diaf' and 'kerb stomp' type postings and memes.

Not only does this need to be made very clear that this is the belief, and this faction with this belief are being supported by many establishments such as the North Yorks Police (that's a very interesting one to unpack) that equal access to the law etc should be dependent on the person having the 'right' political beliefs.....

Jesus, am I actually having to say this? In 2020? A few days after Remembrance Day?

But it should also be put squarely in front of the general public which historical groups have shared these interesting beliefs, and what atrocities and human rights catastrophes, and massive international public war crimes trials followed the enacting of those beliefs.

It has been thought in the past by millions who voted for it and supported it that people practicing a particular faith or following a particular political party (or not following a particular political party) or the colour of their skin, or their genetic heritage were reasons to regard them as legally subhuman. We spent most of the 20th century fighting for a better world to live in based on suppressing this appalling prejudice, bigotry and supremacism by an elite who wanted to control and punish everyone not like them. Now 20 years out of the 20th century, here we bloody go again.

Applauding loudly, Michelle. Thank you for articulating this.

OP, I don’t know when enough people are going to see through this. It’s like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers: the signatories to this have lost touch with all reason and sense of reality and are like beings possessed.

That Amnesty - Amnesty!!! - is supporting a call for women to be disenfranchised over their political views, over standing up for their own rights, should be causing shock waves right through the entire liberal establishment in the UK and Ireland.

And yet... ok, it’s a guess, but I’m willing to bet the response so far from the great and good is... nothing.

This piece is nothing but an epic narc rage tantrum, full of lies and misogyny - the fact it’s getting taken seriously and has been undersigned by so many is just tragic.

I feel like we are living through a civil war. And it’s taking a dreadful toll on society, and will leave lasting damage behind it. I really wonder if and how it will ever be resolved.

TheWordWomanIsTaken Sat 21-Nov-20 15:51:41

Yes, no response from the great and good, a deafening silence. Although all over twitter there is outrage.
I also cannot see any way of this resolving itself. There can be no compromise without either side ceding.
Trans people already have equality in the UK. They have rights as either a man or a woman. But yet they seek to remove women's rights in the full glare of the establishment. And Amnesty are signatories to this. Amnesty? To think I used to financially support them.
I guess the only positive is that this open letter has caused a furore and brings more attention to the men's sexual rights movement that seeks to silence and intimidate women.

OP’s posts: |
MrsBrunch Sat 21-Nov-20 15:55:05

Eh? What are they on about?

Women just want to keep their sex based rights and language they use to describe themselves.

How does that affect transpeople? Seems like a lot of hand wringing over nothing really.

TheWordWomanIsTaken Sat 21-Nov-20 15:57:47

It isn't nothing though is it? Self-id in Ireland was implemented on the back of more popular equal marriage legislation and most people do not know that you can be a woman simply by saying you are.
And that isn't enough. Now they want to silence and intimidate women into silence if they speak up about it.
That's not nothing.

OP’s posts: |
yourhairiswinterfire Sat 21-Nov-20 15:59:45

Considering there's supposedly no difference between TW and women, they sure know which ones they desperately want silencing don't they? And it's not the ones brimming with male privilege either.

Butterer Sat 21-Nov-20 16:02:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SophocIestheFox Sat 21-Nov-20 16:05:07

Bit of a contradiction here. Not sure how you square this:

Supporting transgender people, and standing for transgender equality does not lessen anyone’s rights

With this:

We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs, that are aligned with far right ideologies and seek nothing but harm and division

And this bit is a bit...odd.
The basis of the argument is that all people, regardless of gender should have access to legal recognition, and should be treated as the best authority on their body.

Should they, though? I was taken suddenly into hospital at the beginning of this year, I felt fine, but blood tests showed I was actually extremely sick. Should I just have checked myself out and gone home, being as I’m the expert on my own body?

HermioneWeasley Sat 21-Nov-20 16:05:21

This is disgrace. How can Amnesty have fallen so far from their purpose

MrsBrunch Sat 21-Nov-20 16:22:18

I thought Amnesty were all for sex segregation to help keep women and girls safe.

gardenbird48 Sat 21-Nov-20 16:28:45

register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/1051681/governing-document

See below - I don't think advocating for the removal of Human Rights from a group of people is on their remit?? Anyone know how to report them? Is there anything more effective we can do (I haven't see the Charity Commission actually do anything about all these charities dumping their core aims)??

Charitable objects
TO PROMOTE HUMAN RIGHTS (AS SET OUT IN THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS ("UDHR") AND SUBSEQUENT UNITED NATIONS CONVENTIONS AND DECLARATIONS AND IN REGIONAL CODES OF HUMAN RIGHTS WHICH INCORPORATE THE RIGHTS CONTAINED IN THE UDHR AND THOSE SUBSEQUENT CONVENTIONS AND DECLARATIONS) THROUGHOUT THE WORLD BY ALL OR ANY OF THE FOLLOWING MEANS:- (A) MONITORING ABUSES OF HUMAN RIGHTS (B) OBTAINING REDRESS FOR THE VICTIMS OF HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE; (C) RELIEVING NEED AMONG THE VICTIMS OF HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE; (D) RESEARCH INTO HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES; (E) EDUCATING THE PUBLIC ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS (F) PROVIDING TECHNICAL ADVICE TO GOVERNMENT AND OTHERS ON HUMAN RIGHTS MATTERS; (G) CONTRIBUTING TO THE SOUND ADMINISTRATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS LAW; (H) COMMENTING ON PROPOSED HUMAN RIGHTS LEGISLATION; (I) RAISING AWARENESS OF HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES; (J) PROMOTING PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS; (K) PROMOTING RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS AMONG INDIVIDUALS AND CORPORATIONS; (L) INTERNATIONAL ADVOCACY OF HUMAN RIGHTS; AND (M) ELIMINATING INFRINGEMENTS OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

Defaultname Sat 21-Nov-20 16:32:59

Having a phallic symbol-or is it a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire?- as their logo doesn't help.

MichelleofzeResistance Sat 21-Nov-20 16:35:38

Trans rights are human rights
men's rights are human rights
children's rights are human rights
BAME rights are human rights...

All this basically means is human rights are human rights. What is the point of this lot of waffle other than it sounds all romantically dramatic a la Enjolras waving a flag from the top of the barricades?

Human rights were created for very serious issues that affect people who have no time, capacity or freedom to indulge in this kind of existentialism and exploration/expression of personal identity. It was for people who would like to not be killed, starved, tortured and driven to refugee camps or worse, who would put their physical safety and those basic human rights to not die and to know where the next meal is coming from over their authentic living of their best life.

This is exploiting language and concepts in a way never intended and illustrates how badly the whole term 'human rights' has been used by those with little awareness or respect for what they originally meant. There is no human right to remove civil and legal rights and representations from others for not sharing your political belief: that is the absolute antithesis of why and for what human rights were created.

yourhairiswinterfire Sat 21-Nov-20 16:37:24

They'll be campaigning to take away women's right to vote next. You know, just to be on the safe side in case any of us have a political opinion that's not the same as theirs hmm

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