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Gender recognition process to be simplified for teenagers in Ireland

(28 Posts)
stumbledin Mon 02-Dec-19 19:35:32

The gender recognition process for 16- and 17-year-olds will be simplified under new legislation announced by the Government.

Social Protection Minister Regina Doherty said she will seek to amend the Gender Recognition Act 2015 in response to the findings of a review group which reported back last summer.

However, legal rights group FLAC joined LGBT+ groups TENI and BeLonG To in expressing “disappointment” that she had not committed to implementing all of the recommendations of the review group.

Ms Doherty said: “One of the main findings of the review group was that the current legislation is too onerous for children aged 16 and 17 years, as it involves a court process and certification by two medical practitioners.

“The measures I am proposing today aim to reform this process to reflect the fact that the legal recognition of a person’s gender is separate and distinct from any question of medical intervention, and should be facilitated with parental consent and a simple revocation process.”

The law will also be updated to allow for Irish citizens born outside the State and living outside the State, including Northern Ireland, to apply for a gender recognition certificate.

www.irishlegal.com/article/gender-recognition-process-to-be-simplified-for-teenagers

merrymouse Mon 02-Dec-19 20:42:08

Why is anyone's gender recognised legally?

ImBrianSosMyWife Mon 02-Dec-19 21:14:35

“One of the main findings of the review group was that the current legislation is too onerous for children aged 16 and 17 years, as it involves a court process and certification by two medical practitioners.''

Doesn't this prove they are trying to access something that they aren't mature enough to understand or consent to?

SirVixofVixHall Mon 02-Dec-19 21:19:10

Exactly merrymouse why ? Is it legally recognised that I like wearing trousers , reading fat novels, and eating chocolates ?

Annasgirl Mon 02-Dec-19 21:34:06

Well of course all of us adult human females realise that gender can be whatever you are having yourself, but this is really about recognising men accessing women's spaces as shown in the recent article about the man who self - identified as a woman at his trial for sex crimes and was therefore remanded to a women's prison (I kid you not). I will not tell you the responses on Ireland's political forums but suffice to say that we are now the most woke of the woke in the Western World - except behind it all really is cultural misogyny, where the attempt to contain women's power by the church has been replaced by the attempt to contain women's power by the secular church (i.e. the liberal left).

littlbrowndog Mon 02-Dec-19 21:38:34

Hells teeth the buying of alcohol or fags is hard for the teens

Let’s simplify it

Anyone over 15 can buy fags and drink

Let it not be onerous.

I mean fgs what possible damage could be caused

Bring it on 💪

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo Mon 02-Dec-19 22:01:18

Eilis Barry, chief executive of FLAC,I'm wondering what she has to do with it all?why are FLAC involved? To give legal advice to the working group, to the government? In an irishlegal article from last year, Eilish Barry says *
We particularly welcome the proposal to provide a legal pathway to recognition for those under 16s based on a simplified, administrative, non-medicalised process. This will go a long way to addressing the barriers to living with dignity for transgender children*
They wanted gender recognition for under 16s, for transgender children.

merrymouse Mon 02-Dec-19 23:10:47

This will go a long way to addressing the barriers to living with dignity for transgender children

How?

SirVixofVixHall Mon 02-Dec-19 23:13:19

Maybe we should also be making it easier for under eighteens to get a tattoo ? Because getting your best friend to do it with a compass and some felt tip pens is too onerous.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo Tue 03-Dec-19 00:00:08

This is Amnesty Irelands statement on the new legislation:

www.amnesty.ie/amnesty-international-welcomes-todays-report-on-the-review-of-the-2015-gender-recognition-act/#

we remain concerned that gender recognition may not be accessible to 16 and 17-year-olds who cannot obtain the consent of both their parents... Clearer provision should be made in law to respect the right of children to express themselves and take into account their own views regarding what is in their best interests

This reminds me of someone and some other group.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo Tue 03-Dec-19 00:01:47

Are they saying that a parent that doesn't agree to a child changing their gender doesn't have their child's best interest?

merrymouse Tue 03-Dec-19 00:02:45

we remain concerned that gender recognition

I wish somebody could explain what gender recognition is and why it is necessary.

Clearer provision should be made in law to respect the right of children to express themselves

Who is stopping children expressing themselves?

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily Tue 03-Dec-19 00:08:02

This reminds me of someone and some other group.

Startling similarities. I would hate to be a young girl in Ireland right now.

“Please miss there’s a naked boy in the changing room and Sally is really scared.”

“Tell Sally to stop being such a bigot as John...erm..Joanni is a real boy”

It won’t matter is Sally is traumatised by a childhood history of sexual abuse or watching her father rape her mother, so long as ‘Joanni’ doesn’t get upset.

GinSin Tue 03-Dec-19 01:49:18

Here there plan of action www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval
There slowly introducing all this shit, like we should look to America the same thing happening there is planned to happen here and everywhere else. Scary times. I also wish there was some kinda movement agasint this, Ireland is so quiet on this issue, everyone seems to think its not one. It's sure worrying.

TimeLady Tue 03-Dec-19 05:56:17

Clearer provision should be made in law to respect the right of children to express themselves and take into account their own views regarding what is in their best interests

This reminds me of someone and some other group.

Doesn't it just?

ludog Tue 03-Dec-19 07:58:33

Thank fuck my girls are all adults now, especially dd3 who is bi and has always been GNC. I despair of Ireland with its new religion Wokeus Dei. Honestly, I am constantly amazed at normally sensible people falling over themselves to show how progressive they are.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines Tue 03-Dec-19 09:09:59

What frustrates me is that it's all a veneer - under the surface it's still traditional as hell - my son's having trouble at his new school because he's not a rough, tough, football loving boy, and gets on a bit better with a couple of the girls.

I've had more than one parent teacher meeting where they raise this as a concern, and try to encourage him to spend more time with the boys (which is crazy, because they don't have control of these boys, who are continually getting in trouble for fighting/mucking about/whatever! But 'boys will be boys' apparently which attitude is most of the problem I think)

Backinthecloset123 Tue 03-Dec-19 09:22:40

Imagine how hard it would be for any of these children to voice any doubts about their transition, when the policy capture is this advanced, never mind the stunning-and-brave narrative.

ChattyLion Tue 03-Dec-19 09:23:50

Maybe we should let under 18s be a lorry bus or coach driver? Because getting all those licences is a bit onerous.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Tue 03-Dec-19 09:27:43

Isn't the whole point of going through the legal process of gender recognition that you irrevocably commit to changing your legal sex? And how likely is it that a 16 year old is going to stick to that?

Adult me would have hated being stuck with things I was convinced of at 16. Though gay marriage is legal, so there's that.

merrymouse Tue 03-Dec-19 10:22:33

The language used by amnesty is very worrying. They are promoting the legal enforcement of the idea that our identities have all been classified and recorded, and that to step outside of your classification you need to make a formal declaration.

Also thinking about what we have heard from people who later detransition, I wonder whether it would be possible to refuse drugs and surgery if somebody has legally changed sex/gender? How would you counsel a 16 year old who has changed their legal sex that their distress about their body may have other causes?

3timeslucky Tue 03-Dec-19 10:58:52

This explains with specific references to Ireland how we have come to this. I don't believe there is widespread support for the madness.
There is a highly vocal and vicious group of activists who are all over SM. There are people who have no idea this stuff is happening and those who do and are horrified but don't know how to stop it. The lack of debate and avoidance of media coverage referenced in this article feed into this. The insidious spread is really worrying.
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/?fbclid=IwAR1RN3JP7boWcCXJAFRe_01-kHyam_UvWpuWPQgPtFiWOn7Nzrcf8KGSW78

YellaHumberElla Tue 03-Dec-19 11:10:24

Once it is written into law for, in their words;
‘provision to respect the right of children to express themselves and take into account their own views regarding what is in their best interests’

then those of us who are interested in safeguarding can be overridden, blocked, silenced and ultimately be accountable in law for going against them realising these so called ‘interests’.

That should set warning signals flashing all over the place, but this is being ushered through.

James Kirkup has picked this up in his blog. Dentons, the law firm who wrote the TRA lobbying charter linked above, have highlighted Ireland as a success story, in quietly pushing this agenda under a veil of secrecy.

Fallingdownhouse Tue 03-Dec-19 13:33:15

Okay, how do we halt this? Email RD? My teen DD is pretty GNC and goes to a fairly 'woke' school. I'm not worried about her as she's had the message that you can be who ever you want to be you just can't change sex from a young age, but I can definitely see it with some of her friends. Girls who may turn out to be lesbian or bi are beginning to think they might be a boy.

Almost everyone in my social circle agrees trans women can't be women but still think trans people need access to bathrooms etc.
The Dentons article really hit the nail on the head for me. Ireland is sleep walking into this (already has?). It's like we're so desperate to make up for serious past mistakes the whole country has swung so far left even my god fearing mother thinks we just need to be nice and let them have what they're asking for! As if letting some men into female spaces will somehow make up for the Magdalena laundries and paedophile priests.

So how do we stop the regulatory/institutional capture? I hate feeling helpless, I want to start doing something!

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo Tue 03-Dec-19 18:43:21

Fallingdownhouse
I could be worth emailing RD although she is really seems to be advocating for this. Maybe a local Td or Councillor aswell?
There's a female columnist for the Independent or Irish Times maybe, I just can't remember her name but I remember reading something she wrote about the gra and it was a little GC. I've been trying online to find out who it was, does anyone know who I'm talking about?

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