' Don't be an asshole tour' intends to making gyms trans-friendly

[QuietContraryMary]

Basically a few years ago a TW sued CrossFit for $2.5 million for not being allowed to compete as a female despite having, er, non-female biology.

Said TW won a nice out-of-court settlement, and now CrossFit announces you can 'identitfy your own gender', literally 'tick any box'

www.scmp.com/sport/outdoor/crossfit-strongman/article/2181526/crossfit-games-says-transgender-athletes-can

Said TW was recruited by the 'Out Foundation' and is now embarking on a tour to tell women they are 'assholes' if they don't want JY in their changing room.

"Lanier acknowledges that some business owners who aren’t as well-versed in transgender issues may be reticent to alienate some cisgender clientele, especially if courts are sympathetic to enforcing traditional gender norms — as recently happened when a Michigan court restored a lawsuit brought by a cisgender woman against Planet Fitness after she discovered the gym allowed transgender women to use the female locker room."

www.metroweekly.com/2019/01/dont-be-an-asshole-tour-promotes-transgender-acceptance-fitness/

This excerpt made me LOL:

"As a transgender CrossFitter and yogi, Bennett Kaspar says he’s never experienced outright or blatant discrimination at his home “box,” or gym, in Los Angeles, even during his transition. But he notes that even some of the colloquial jargon used by his fellow CrossFitters can be exclusionary.

“My gym is a very queer gym. We have a lot of LGB members and so it was always a comfortable place for me,” he says. “But there are things about CrossFit that remain unchallenged in my gym, that when I workout there, I confront every single time. When I do weightlifting, Olympic lifting, I use the 35-pound bar, because I don’t have very large hands. I also don’t have very large wrists. And so if I’m going to lift heavy, I need to be able to use my grips. I have to use the skinnier bar. And in my gym, it’s still called the ladies’ bar.

“When I do workouts, I oftentimes will do what is labeled the women’s RX workout because that’s where I’m at with my fitness right now. And I still have to say ‘ladies RX’ when I report out my score,”

A bit more

“The fitness industry has a whole lot of problems. The fitness industry definitely pushes the mythology that a ‘real man’ is one who’s got six-pack abs and all that, and a ‘real woman’ is someone with a tiny waist and big boobs, or whatever,” she says. “And if you look at the marketing of every fitness product and fitness company out there, what you’ll see sold to you to is these very stereotypical, gender-essential ideas"

Isn't fitness gender-essential by nature? If you have, er, 'female' biology then you will struggle to make your body look like someone with, er, 'male' biology. An athlete with 7% body fat is male. And men can gain much more muscle than women.

How marvellous. Soon all humans will be as if they were the product of one big melting pot.
Well all the ones you'll see in public anyhow.

“But there are things about CrossFit that remain unchallenged in my gym, that when I workout there, I confront every single time. When I do weightlifting, Olympic lifting, I use the 35-pound bar because I don’t have very large hands. I also don’t have very large wrists. And so if I’m going to lift heavy, I need to be able to use my grips. I have to use the skinnier bar. And in my gym, it’s still called the ladies’ bar.

“When I do workouts, I oftentimes will do what is labeled the women’s RX workout because that’s where I’m at with my fitness right now. And I still have to say ‘ladies RX’ when I report out my score,”

So is what Bennett Kaspar really confronting the material realities of his female sexed body, its bone structure, proportions and strength range?

I agree with not much liking the term 'ladies' but would offer up women's instead

If it really were a 'don't be an asshole tour', wouldn't it be focussed on not taking up those limited spaces dedicated to women in gyms? Not flashing penises or looking for vaginas in the women's locker room?

Gym I used to belong to occupied a full city block with one small square set aside for women.

The entitlement and appropriation are just breathtaking. Misogyny.

“When I do workouts, I oftentimes will do what is labeled the women’s RX workout because that’s where I’m at with my fitness right now. And I still have to say ‘ladies RX’ when I report out my score,”

Well, you don't have to, you could do the mens' RX - you just wouldn't meet it yet (it's like a target to hit - that you did the proscribed workout as specified - this is targeted at men, so they'll scale it down for women).

It's entirely up to a person if it's more important to validate their identity, or get a little tick for completing the Rx that day.

Well love, as the TRAs and their wee pets are so fond of saying, “no one’s FORCING you to use it”. Suck it up buttercup.

I googled Bennett Kaspar and hes actually a passing trans man. But has female biology. That explains the quotes about why he’s angry about things being labelled “ladies” (which most TW would love).

He is deluded though if he really thinks the reason he can only do the things labelled for women is that “that’s just where I am with my fitness right now”. Come on...

Oops, see the article already had that info! I got Bennett mixed up with the TW mentioned at the start - ignore me!

The whole wonder of CrossFit for me is that men and women compete an practically equal terms, particularly in the cardio based events, because the women's weights are appropriately graded.

If they are now allowing men to tick any box and self declare as women they're going to massively alienate female athletes and piss off the female competitors. I can't imagine the top women taking it lying down.

Not very classy implying abuse survivors who are distressed by the thought of people with penises in spaces those women would really not feel happy having them in are 'assholes'

Not very classy implying abuse survivors who are distressed by the thought of people with penises in spaces those women would really not feel happy having them in are 'assholes'

Telegraph front page today:
NHS trans row as men get access to women's wards if they identify as female
(extract)
"Hospitals routinely allow male patients to share female wards if they self-identify as women, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

Despite official guidance intended to eliminate mixed sex wards, none of the NHS trusts in England require a patient to have begun transition for them to be treated as their preferred sex, according to responses to more than 100 Freedom of Information requests.

One trust even advises staff to consult with the transgender patient if a female victim of sexual assault objects to sharing facilities with someone who may be biologically and legally male.

The NHS is unable to track how many transgender people are accommodated on wards for the opposite sex because data systems record them as their “preferred” sex.

The Department of Health’s “elimination of mixed sex wards” guidance upon which individual trusts must base their policies says that “men and women should not have to share sleeping accommodation or toilet/bathroom facilities”. But the document adds, “except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their patient choice”.

As a result, a physically intact male has the right to choose to be treated on a ward for women that is simultaneously declared to be single sex." continues
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/10/nhs-trans-row-men-get-access-womens-wards-identify-female/

To me Kaspar doesn't pass. I should imagine any gay man would notice if Kaspar were to end up as a Grindr match.
Kaspar aside, because I don't want to focus on one person - posters on here are mostly female and I've noticed a few who describe transmen as passing. Do you think that's because women are less attuned to noticing male specifics? In the same way that men appear to think transwomen pass better than we think they do?
I notice non-passing transmen because I'm a butch lesbian, so I recognise proportions, gait, etc. Often I attract hostility from transmen, I assume they worry about me outing them (I'd never do such a thing, but I can't see why else they would be hostile)
I can imagine a straight woman would assume "male" from a passing glance, much as a straight male would assume "female" if that person was dressed in stereotypically feminine clothing.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

@FlyingOink I think there are a few aspects to it.
I think women pass as men more easily than men pass as women. There was an interesting video floating around social media/youtube from the CIA about disguising people, which commented that making most men look like a woman is impossible, but making a woman look like a man is pretty easy.
The only transman I know, I think passes reasonably well - but they look a lot younger than they are - they look like an older teen boy rather than a mid-20s woman.
And also because it's more common for women to present in "masculine" ways, even if a transman doesn't completely pass, there isn't necessarily anything 'notable' about their appearance, nothing to make you look more closely. Whereas a man in a dress, or even a man of average height and build, is more often very obviously not a woman.

Plus of course it's quite hard to quantify, because you have no idea how many people you meet are trans, if they do pass - you only notice the ones who don't pass!

they look like an older teen boy rather than a mid-20s woman
Which might make it harder to pass as they get older, I guess. Men's faces change as they age, their nose and ears get bigger, faces get more and more masculinised. I can see why so many transmen grow beards, it hides the jawline and is read as male.
you have no idea how many people you meet are trans, if they do pass - you only notice the ones who don't pass
That's possible, I am not claiming to have 100% accuracy on my transdar. I think I spot more than many other people do, I've met a fair few transmen, and most other people haven't. But who knows. I was just wondering if the disparity was sex based.
I might have to go lurk on data lounge to see what they have to say about it.

I heard a transman somewhere, possibly a youtuber? who said it was harder to pass nowadays than it was 10 years ago as the general public are so much more informed and aware of trans people now.

He said he thought they'd made a mistake drawing attention to themselves in the media etc. as it tunes in people's 'transdar'

I don't think Kaspar passes at all. They don't really look like either sex. They look like a CGI version of a person; like a character out of a PS4 game is the best way I can think of to describe that look.

I wonder is it also that passing or not, transmen don't pose a much increased risk to women so noticing them isn't as much of a priority?

Which might make it harder to pass as they get older, I guess
Yes, I definitely think it will. People who have transitioned when older pass much less well, IMO. It will be interesting to see how long-term hormone treatment affects things like fat distribution and face shape longer-term (scientist hat on here!)

I didn't mean you specifically with noticing people who pass btw - I meant the generic "you". I'd be interested to see any data you do find!

I've noticed a few who describe transmen as passing. Do you think that's because women are less attuned to noticing male specifics? In the same way that men appear to think transwomen pass better than we think they do?

I think women are fairly polite.

How about having a Don't Be A Giant Narcissistic Baby tour?

I think most women may not notice transmen as they don't ping our threat radar, which would indicate that on a subconscious level we're still perceiving them as female. Hips don't lie, as Shakira said.

I think there's a big difference between taking a persuasive photo at just the right angle, and 'passing' in the flesh. The average height differences, hand and foot size, hip/pelvis shape, gait and voice are much more apparent in person than in a still photo.

For some odd reason most of the transmen I've met have been short even by female standards, and it's hard to convince people that a 5ft2 "man" with womanly hips is male in the flesh.

mean gays thread 1
mean gays thread 2
mean gays thread 3
I don't think the boys are convinced
Joking aside, their arguments are similar to ours, they're just less concerned about how they say it. One or two comments supportive of lesbians too.

There was a moving episode of "Queer Eye" ("Sky's the Limit") in which the guys help a transitioning person who has clearly had a very, very tough life. I really wish Skyler all the best.

But as they film this episode all the difference in stature, shape, voice, and the way the guys treat the person (with most biological males they flirt; they absolutely do not do this with Skyler) is very obvious on film.