'the opposition has... seemingly deep pockets' - help me debunk this

[morningtoncrescent62]

Someone in my union branch facebook page posted a link to an odious and frankly silly article in Gay Star News (they posted it seriously, though). Most of it's risible and easily refuted. However, I'm intrigued by this statement:

'The opposition to reform has loud mouths and seemingly deep pockets'

The only deep pockets I'm aware of are those of Stonewall and the likes of LGBT Yoth Scotland (we're in Scotland and they're a big player). Are there any 'deep pockets' that anyone knows of amongst the women's rights groups? I'm curious, and I don't want to say anything wrong that I can be picked up for - I'm expecting plenty of flak so want to avoid any obvious traps.

The article is here for info, but it's not worth the time spent reading it unless you have to.

You can tell the GC side don't have deep pockets; we don't have loads of politicians fawning over our GC media stars while spouting utter rubbish that makes them sound like a bunch of anti vaxxer flat earth science deniers.

We have succeeded in crowdfunding some reasonable sums for a series of campaigns and legal challenges. Most people contributing to these crowdfunders give £10 or £20 at a time. There are a lot of us, that's the explanation these numpties don't want to believe.

To the best of my knowledge it is just ordinary women (and the odd man) donating what they can afford to spare. Obviously some have more than others but I've never seen any crowdfunding donations of more than a couple of hundred.

It's a smear tactic at the moment to try and link UK feminist groups with US fundamental Christian right wing and pro life groups. This is patently rubbish and smacks of desperation.

They are fond of a good reverse scenario and will be well aware how much top down funding they have received vs women's grassroots funding campaigns.

This might help
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3328210-Follow-the-money-who-is-funding-the-US-transborg

I saw a lot of this after the full page advert that fair play for women put in the Metro. That was crowdfunded and I think about £10,000 was raised which paid for the adverts and also they have a website and you can donate via the website and you can also buy merchandise and a lot of women I know bought the packs of leaflets to go out flyering I think they were at £2 a pack or something so really reasonable but everything as far as I'm aware is completely funded by the women who think this is such an important issue.

Fair Play said they got a deal on the Metro ad so it was nowhere near £45,000 or whatever the claim was. The TRAs have no concept of huge numbers of grass-roots women all caring enough about something to work together & give what they can.

Thanks, everyone, that's very helpful . Bowlofbabelfish what an informative thread - though quite scarey. I'll read the links properly later.

It makes me wonder what the yardstick is when people makes such claims. If you took a dispassionate look at the frequency of TV/radio appearances, airtime given etc etc to TRAs I have no doubt it would outstrip the GC side. My own belief about this is that the 'ideal' woman is silent - I believe this can be found in the bible and other sources - so when they say we make a lot of noise, they mean for women, and the comparison is with a silent woman. So any noise we make is a lot. This is not true for men, of course, who are supposed to be dominant and talk and hog the limelight.

I agree with the poster upthread that we are many who donate small amounts. I found the thread last week about the FPFW ad in the Metro very illuminating. Harrop et al on Twitter were all 'where did they get that money? They should have spent it on X instead' blah blah. Misogynists. Never thinking we could have decent jobs, be in the professions, direct our own lives. Nor could they see that women have for ever raised money by cake sales or whatever: small amounts on a regular basis can work wonders. If you have money, you have power.

There is no categorical proof of how these women's groups are funded. Unless PLUK, WNTT, FPFW et cetera are willing to open up their books.

That the trans mob are asking this question just shows to me how desperate they are. They are the ones with powerful friends and GC grass-roots womens groups don't. As said above I suspect individual contribs are modest BUT THERE ARE A LOTS OF US.

morningtoncrescent62 there are all sorts of ridiculous accusations floating about, with no proof of course.

What I find extraordinary is how surprised they are that a; women have money of our own to spend and b; that we would donate.

I've donated to several times, Im broke, but I really care. Maybe point out that some of us are capable of holding down jobs and do actually get paid. They thought they would get away with pushing all this through with no opposition. This tweet is good for a laugh. Women have brains shock horror and can organise.

twitter.com/FeministRoar/status/1048968742401708037

That Feminist Roar thread sums it all up beautifully. As ever, every time TWs open their mouths they prove how male they are.

Harrop et al on Twitter were all 'where did they get that money? They should have spent it on X instead' blah blah

Yes. What Harrop & the others are ignoring when they preach about donating to DV shelters etc is that if self-ID goes through there won't be any women-only DV shelters to donate to.

Wouldn't it be funny if both sides are actually not well funded. Most of everything is on line or by people like Janice Turner in The Times for which she gets paid. I haven't seen much money being spent apart from those posters and the advert in the Metro.

My own belief about this is that the 'ideal' woman is silent - I believe this can be found in the bible and other sources - so when they say we make a lot of noise, they mean for women, and the comparison is with a silent woman. So any noise we make is a lot.

That's so true. At work I sometimes resort to doing little tally graphs in meetings of how often the men speak versus how often the women do. We have a couple of more senior women who are generally perceived as 'dominating' personalities, but the reality is they speak far less than men at the same grade. Most of my colleagues believe in terms of overall contributions at meetings men and women say about the same, but that's wrong - men talk more often and for longer even when they have nothing to say. It's just become completely normalised, probably from school days.

so when they say we make a lot of noise, they mean for women, and the comparison is with a silent woman. So any noise we make is a lot
Spot on AncientLights

It will be more of the 'FPFW are funded by homophobic anti-abortion right wing fundamentalist Christians' or whatever the hell the latest TRA line is. Anyone can go see the fundraisers that were done, but they prefer to spread bollocks.

My own belief about this is that the 'ideal' woman is silent - I believe this can be found in the bible and other sources - so when they say we make a lot of noise, they mean for women, and the comparison is with a silent woman. So any noise we make is a lot.

men talk more often and for longer even when they have nothing to say. It's just become completely normalised, probably from school days.

YY to both those points.

Its by Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch).
Helen Belcher is the person referred to in James Kirkup's article today:

Instead, lobbyists get to frame the debate with irresponsible and statistically dubious claims. Those claims are currently being used as a stick to beat journalists who try to shed light on the issue, especially Janice Turner of the Times. Having endured threats and abuse for asking for evidence-based public policy around safeguarding and children’s health, she is now being accused of causing children to kill themselves. That accusation is, of course, groundless. It’s also rather revealing: for some people in this debate, nothing is off limits when it comes to trying to silence women who say things they don’t like. It also says a lot about the debate itself: this sort of dangerous, anti-democratic and anti-evidence nonsense is happening because politicians aren’t doing their jobs properly."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/even-our-mps-are-afraid-of-the-transgender-mob/

TransMedia Watch:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3238618-Trans-Media-Watch-has-written-to-parliament-saying-trans-identified-male-can-be-considered-as-hate-speech-and-that-Mumsnet-users-referring-to-penises-are-being-transphobic

@morningtoncrescent62 May I suggest this fun tool arementalkingtoomuch.com/

In a few feminist groups I’m in, Ive seen assertions that GC groups (and FPFW) in particular are funded by Christian fundamentalists and right wing groups. They genuinely believe that.

It's been pushed a lot at the moment.

Also be aware: they lie. The ad in The Metro cost under £3k, not the £45k they are shrieking about.

I think it was the Harrop that came up with the £45K figure: he'd got hold of a rate card and done his sums. Incorrectly it appears. Hope he's better at working out drug dosages.

Oooh, that's brilliant, MrsTerryPratchett - I can't wait to use it!

Hope he's better at working out drug dosages

good thing I didn't have a mouthful of tea when I read that.