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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this the future in the UK - prison sentences for transphobia

49 replies

Estellesylvia · 02/10/2018 21:22

Pink News hope so.

Terrifying.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/02/switzerland-homophobia-transphobia-prison/

OP posts:
Estellesylvia · 02/10/2018 21:23

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/02/switzerland-homophobia-transphobia-prison/

OP posts:
Chocalatecappuccino · 02/10/2018 21:31

This is indeed frightening.

Lazypoolday · 02/10/2018 21:33

When there is a push for the definition of "female" to be considered hate speech, then yes, that is frightening.

ToeToToe · 02/10/2018 21:38

It's because transactivism is totalitarian, and no dissenters will be tolerated.

When someone given the password to the Goldsmiths LGBT twitter account tweets seriously about sending women to Gulags for re-education, and that Gulags were a 'good thing in the end' - then I do think we should be a tad worried.

makingmiracles · 02/10/2018 21:42

Not. Going. To . Happen.

Ffs, they can’t even put away most pedophiles as there is not enough room in propisons to put them, so I can’t see the morning locking up people for transphobia somehow Hmm

makingmiracles · 02/10/2018 21:42

*prisons

makingmiracles · 02/10/2018 21:44

Ffs *i can’t see them

Has mn changed their msging functions? Every time I write a post it autocorrects to stupid stuff that doesn’t make sense, never used to have this problem on here

ToeToToe · 02/10/2018 21:46

Oh I dunno, makingmiracles - West Yorkshire police would rather travel to the other end of the country to interview Posie Parker about a tweet, than investigate burglaries or paedophiles.

SYP want non-crimes reported to them.

They'd probably love to put a load of mumsnetters away for thoughtcrime.

Estellesylvia · 02/10/2018 21:50

You can just see it, can’t you. Women being imprisoned simply for defining themselves. For saying women don’t have penises. For refusing to call men like Karen White ‘she’.

I actually think this is very possible.

OP posts:
JenFromTheGlen · 02/10/2018 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryAttackKittens · 02/10/2018 22:04

I see the love for gulags continues unabated. There's something truly alarming about people who want to punish others for thoughtcrime, and I think that societies need to get to grips with how we're going to deal with the fact that there are so many people with those tendencies.

Barracker · 02/10/2018 22:06

I'm opposed to the concept of 'hate speech' and similarly believe that the idea of 'hate crime' is flawed and dangerous.

But so long as hate crimes exist, sex MUST be included, but isn't.

Crime is crime. We need to write laws that criminalise crimes without impinging upon basic human rights in a democratic society.

As a matter of fact, I believe it should be the prerogative of any person in a free society to hate whomever they wish and state it out loud without punishment. Emotions and thoughts must not be criminalised. It's for society to change a person's ideas through dialogue and debate, or not. It isn't the place of the law to punish wrong emotions or thoughts or speech.

Serfisafleur · 02/10/2018 22:10

All crimes are acts of hate.
I don't believe in a hierarchy making crimes against one group "worse" than crimes against another group.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 02/10/2018 22:15

They don't need to lock up many, just a few to make everyone else shut up.
Henry VIII didn't need to chop off many heads to get people to swear the oath making him head of the church, just a few key ones like Thomas More.
So the overcrowding of the prison system isn't really the a problem.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 02/10/2018 22:24

It’s depressing when anger and frustration over an issue causes people to lose the nuances and head towards a fundamentalist view

You may have noticed, the fundamentalism didn't start here.

You won't find anyone here who doesn't wholly agree, anyone who uses aggression and violence against someone because they don't like the way they dress or who they sleep with or whether they're obeying gender stereotypes deserve tough sentencing.

It isn't MNetters who correlates battering someone with saying something they don't agree with. It isn't MNetters calling the police and involving the courts over tweets and downright lies and framing them as 'hate'. Do you ever notice any reciprocal care on the part of the police to support women who are dealing with real threats of rape, beating, gulags, infinitely worse? Because I don't. I see none. The care here is totally one way and benefits people with penises at the expense of people with vulvas.

For fucks sake, how many women here have left partners who have threatened, thumped, stalked, harassed them, and had the police and courts do absolutely nothing because treating women like that is ok? And yet who is threatened here with prison sentencing for merely saying 'er, excuse me, I have rights too and one of them includes the right to speak the truth'?

You bet I'm depressed. It's not because women here are failing to be nice enough, calm enough, objective enough.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 02/10/2018 22:26

You are however absolutely right that anger and frustration does not breed harmony, tolerance, inclusiveness and a happy society. It creates utter fuck ups like Brexit and Trump and worse. As MNetters have been trying to get people in power to realise from the start. The last thing that this mess is going to end in is a happy ever after for anyone.

Fairenuff · 02/10/2018 22:28

If it went to court, surely the defence solicitor would ask for clarification of the terms 'woman', 'female', etc. This could be a good thing. It needs to be written in law what, exactly, is transphobic about stating biological facts.

ToeToToe · 02/10/2018 22:32

What about the prolific number of rape threats, and even death threats towards women - women who are not sufficiently 'nice' and inclusive enough for the liking of the transactivists?

What about misogyny, the staggering amount of harassment and assault our young girls and women are just dealing with as part of life?

It is very rare you see that dealt with via the prison system.

It's no coincidence that transactivists are calling women's organisations like WPUK "hate groups".

MrMagnoliasBoot · 02/10/2018 22:43

My experience this week has been being locked in a house by my ex, strangled and managing to escape, ringing the police them not taking it seriously because he said he I attack him and have mental health problems. The policeman dismissed me despite the fact I had physical injuries and ripped clothing yet the police went through the DV questions with him and gave him a crime reference number and not me. They just put me in an ambulance and closed the case. I find it hard to believe anyone really cares about woman now.
Maybe if I had identified as a man I would have been taken seriously, as being a human female seems to mean nothing now.

theOtherPamAyres · 02/10/2018 22:47

Luckily, this country has a better way of doing things.

When crimes are committed, the police have to prove that the perpetrator was motivated by
racial hatred/homophobia/transphobia/whatever.

Sometimes it's obvious - eg things like grafitti (criminal damage)

Sometimes it isn't and you have to probe the perpetrator's story, in an interview. Let's take an example, where the word 'pedo' (sic) has been painted on someone's wall. The victim isn't a paedophile, but they are trans.

In interview, the perpetrator tells you that they believe all gay men are disgusting kiddie fiddlers and that's why they wrote it.

In this case, the crime was motivated by homophobia, not transphobia. The fact that the perpetrator doesn't know his arse from his elbow and has confused a transwoman with a gay man, is neither here nor there. The important thing is: what's behind the crime?

The fact that the transwoman believes that the crime was motivated by transphobia is irrelevant. They don't call the shots. They don't know what was in the perpetrator's head.

It's not usually as complicated as that, but it happens.

I think we've got the right idea. I think Switzerland will tie itself up in knots - but I note that it uses the twin terms of homophobia-transphobia, as if anticipating the sort of situation that I have outlined. Yep, good luck with that, Swiss Police.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 02/10/2018 22:50

Magnolia that's appalling, are you ok? Flowers

MrMagnoliasBoot · 02/10/2018 22:54

Knicknackpaddyflak Doing the very best I can do thank you. It's just mad when actual assaults are being carried out and ignored yet this stuff is happening. The people that actually need protecting are being ignored.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 02/10/2018 22:57

I am so sorry. Flowers The injustice of it all is sickening.

MrMagnoliasBoot · 02/10/2018 23:02

It is scary, I am lucky and have put things in place so I am now protected. There are so many vunerable woman out there and this seems to be another case of being shot down when woman try to stand up for themselves. It seems like we are moving backwards very quickly.

ToeToToe · 02/10/2018 23:16

Magnolia Thanks