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Butlins. Single sex toilets. and baby changes

(34 Posts)
ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 07:09:33

Staying at Butlins during their mid term toddler weeks. The main area has one set of toilets, they have all been labelled womens and mens, and they all have a "baby change" logo next to them.

There are obviously hundreds of families with mothers and fathers and almost all of the children are still nappy age.

Walk in to the women's bathroom which is literally next door to the men's and see a man using the changing area to change his baby. There is a wall of full baby change units like you have in a home nursery and I assume one-drop down in the disabled toilet.

I ask him why he isn't using the men's area, and he says it's because he is "helping his pregnant wife". I tell him he can "help" her in the men's room. He says OK and starts to leave at this point the cleaner has a go at me and tells me that actually, the only provision for men is in the men's disabled cubicle at the back of the men's toilets and that men are welcome to use the women's toilets to change their baby for that reason.

So I walk out and across the tent to ask why in 2018, in a place specifically designed for children, during their specifically most baby-friendly time they haven't got a provision for men to change their babies. I tell the woman what happened and I'm again questioned as to why I asked the man to leave the women's toilets. I said because he was in the women's toilets and as they were labelled as all baby change friendly I thought he should go to the men's room next door. the woman says he has every right to change there and I asked if they have a policy of single sex toilets or not? She says of course they do but men can only see the sinks and not in to the individual cubicles so she doesn't see the issue. She is looking at me like I'm slightly mad. I explained that sometimes if you've been puked on or if you're changing a child who has had an accident you might need to use the main area and sinks which are meant to be private. And that families with three children can't actually fit in to the cubicle.

I said, does she not think it's weird that in 2018 Butlins a child friendly resort doesn't think able-bodied men need to change their babies? She said it was because the building was 50 years old. Which while true, doesn't really cut it as the bathrooms and whole place have clearly been updated in the past 50 years and the 3 changing tables at the front of the women's toilets are stand alone anyway. The woman admits that actually yes, it probably is a bit "discriminatory towards men" hmm

So basically my issue is that able bodied men with children who far outnumber disabled men with babies have the option of taking up a disabled cubicle or going in to the women's area. And that again, women are made to feel stupid for asking a strange man to kindly get out?

--And why don't organizations like F4J fight for more changing rooms in toilets so they can do diapers instead of poor cereal on floors?--hmm

Rufustheyawningreindeer Thu 13-Sep-18 07:55:50

You are completely and utterly right

Its a dreadful state of affairs

If the mens has a baby change it should not be in the disabled bit and they shoukd be bloody 'free' to waltz into the womans

No idea what pregnant lady was thinking of

And the cleaner was bang out of order

It did hapoen to me in france...but i thought it might be a bit of a french thing so didnt say anything

Version2point0 Thu 13-Sep-18 08:06:19

There ought to be proper provision for baby changing in both toilet areas, but I couldn't get this worked up about a man changing a baby, or ask them to move mid-change!

Maybe his pregnant wife was using the toilets?

I'm sure I don't seem to speak for the majority of people on mumsnet but I'm sick of posts about men using toilets, let's just make them all unisex already and be done with it!

lovemylot1 Thu 13-Sep-18 08:15:30

If it’s Bognor Regis they are in the process of building brand new swimming pool facilities in a new building

Juells Thu 13-Sep-18 08:24:55

I'm sure I don't seem to speak for the majority of people on mumsnet but I'm sick of posts about men using toilets, let's just make them all unisex already and be done with it!

Who made you the boss of the rest of us?

ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 08:26:11

If the mens has a baby change it should not be in the disabled bit and they shoukd be bloody 'free' to waltz into the womans

That's what I thought, but I guess I was wrong!

There ought to be proper provision for baby changing in both toilet areas, but I couldn't get this worked up about a man changing a baby, or ask them to move mid-change!

Wouldn't you think it was weird if a man appeared to be in the women's toilets if there was perfectly adequate men's provisions next door because that what's the sign indicated so that's why i assumed it.

Maybe his pregnant wife was using the toilets?
I don't understand? Why is that relevant?

I'm sure I don't seem to speak for the majority of people on mumsnet but I'm sick of posts about men using toilets, let's just make them all unisex already and be done with it!

90% of sexual assaults happen in unisex toilets thanks. Despite making up a fraction of toilets. Google it. Not to mention that some religious women and some assaults survivors will basically be barred form toilets.

If it’s Bognor Regis they are in the process of building brand new swimming pool facilities in a new building

It is but this isn't in the swimming area just the normal main bit near the stage.

Rufustheyawningreindeer Thu 13-Sep-18 08:27:29

Oh gosh obviously i meanst shouldn't

Doh!!

But i see you understood what i meant

WRachelC Thu 13-Sep-18 08:35:52

I'm sure I don't seem to speak for the majority of people on mumsnet but I'm sick of posts about men using toilets, let's just make them all unisex already and be done with it!

This! Thank you.

Lichtie Thu 13-Sep-18 08:40:38

I've googled the statistics on men using baby's to access spaces and then committing sexual assault whilst changing a nappy.... Couldn't find anything?

Juells Thu 13-Sep-18 08:42:03

I've googled the statistics on men using baby's to access spaces and then committing sexual assault whilst changing a nappy.... Couldn't find anything?

How very droll. It's such an amusing subject, sexual assault.

Vinylsamso Thu 13-Sep-18 08:46:11

Get a life. Enjoy your holiday. Who the hell goes on holiday and still has nonsense political arguments with minimum wage staff that honestly couldn’t give two shits about your expectations of the World. Then your still going on about in here in your holiday! The World and all the establishments within it don’t meet your criteria or correct or perfect, must be awful for you.

Version2point0 Thu 13-Sep-18 08:46:13

Who made you the boss of the rest of us?

I think you'll find that in my comment I made it clear my opinion was against what seems to be popular opinion. It's you that has assumed that you speak for everybody other than me.

Juells Thu 13-Sep-18 08:47:40

Version2point0

let's just make them all unisex already and be done with it

Sounded pretty bossy to me.

Version2point0 Thu 13-Sep-18 08:49:34

Lol at feminists using the word "bossy" to describe another woman.

Version2point0 Thu 13-Sep-18 08:53:05

90% of sexual assaults happen in unisex toilets

But 75% of assaults are by perpetrators known to the victims, do these people seek out uni-sex toilets?

Juells Thu 13-Sep-18 08:55:07

Lol at feminists using the word "bossy" to describe another woman.

You're happily ignoring the fact that single-sex toilets have been around for 100 years or so, and were introduced so that women could feel safe and be able to do things without having to be within walking distance of home. It meant women could work. Women aren't the ones who want the situation changed, men are. This isn't feminists being bossy, it's men demanding access where they're not wanted.

ChattyLion Thu 13-Sep-18 08:57:08

OP good on you for bringing this up with them.

you could email or tweet Butlins this thread- www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

Women need women’s toilets that are single sex, right from the door they enter into that private space and the sink and mirrors areas- not just private spaces inside the cubicle.

Juells Thu 13-Sep-18 08:57:37

But 75% of assaults are by perpetrators known to the victims, do these people seek out uni-sex toilets?

I'll make a daring leap here, and guess that the poster might be referring to assaults in toilets, not sexual assaults in general.

ChattyLion Thu 13-Sep-18 09:10:03

Also filming in toilets is becoming a thing:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-45388759

BBC article:
The South Korean capital, Seoul, has pledged to carry out daily checks in all public toilets for hidden cameras.
Secret cameras in toilets and changing rooms are a serious problem in South Korea - with more than 6,000 cases of "spy cam porn" reported last year.
The videos are often uploaded online without the knowledge of the victims.
Earlier this year, tens of thousands of women protested against hidden cameras, carrying signs with messages like "my life is not your porn".
Activists say women live in constant fear of being photographed or filmed without their knowledge.
About 80% of the victims of spy camera porn are women.

ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 09:10:46

But 75% of assaults are by perpetrators known to the victims, do these people seek out uni-sex toilets?I'll make a daring leap here, and guess that the poster might be referring to assaults in toilets, not sexual assaults in general.

Tbf Version20 probably did misunderstand as no one would use rape statistics as a cheap gotcha.

ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 09:13:05

Get a life. Enjoy your holiday. Who the hell goes on holiday and still has nonsense political arguments with minimum wage staff that honestly couldn’t give two shits about your expectations of the World

Firstly, the cleaner had a pop at me. Not the way around. I then complained about the lack of men's provisions to the appropriate member of staff. You on the hand are annoyed about something that hasn't happened to you and has nothing to do with you.

ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 09:19:02

Unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities, research by The Sunday Times shows. Almost 90% of reported sexual assaults, harassment and voyeurism in swimming pool and sports-centre changing rooms happen in unisex facilities, which make up less than half the total.

Rufustheyawningreindeer Thu 13-Sep-18 09:22:45

Im a bit insulted at the minimum wage staff comment grin

Anyone on any wage can not give 2 shits about the OPs opinion

Disclaimer...i am not really insulted, but i do think its a weird thing to say. Member of staff would have been sufficient

ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 09:26:33

I've googled the statistics on men using baby's to access spaces and then committing sexual assault whilst changing a nappy.... Couldn't find anything?

LOLZ

I'm sure most men using the women's toilets for nefarious reasons normally wear a "I'm a pervert" sign around their neck generally. this guy totally wasn't, I should have left him to it.

ButlinsCanbuggeroff Thu 13-Sep-18 09:27:16

Anyone on any wage can not give 2 shits about the OPs opinio

regardless of wage, everyone should care about my opinion grin

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