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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ever wondered about the BBC's pro-trans agenda? This is why

23 replies

OrchidInTheSun · 01/07/2018 10:00

So according to an internal survey, more than 1 in 50 of bbc staff identify as trans. So all this 'oh any new laws will affect a tiny minority' is bollocks.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5905129/BBC-chief-stunned-secret-staff-sex-survey-reveals-417-workers-transgender.html

As ever, apols for Fail link

OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 01/07/2018 10:34

And what about the asexuals I want to know. Not enough Lesbians -is that
Lesbians with or without a penis?
A friend said there are 2 kinds of archaeologist 'lumpers' and 'splitters (these items look roughly the same versus this one's got some red but this one's got some black on it) The splitters have taken over.

MilkGoatee · 01/07/2018 11:00

1:100, not 1:50 (1.7% of 75% of staff).

DJLippy · 01/07/2018 11:07

he did not regard the BBC as diverse enough, claiming more lesbians were needed.

Hurrah for AGP! That's a twofer that is - trans AND lesbian...oh shit AND a woman - massaging those horrendous gender pay gap figures.

Wanderabout · 01/07/2018 11:11

The article appears very confused about the wider debate. It says traditionalists think gender is 'assigned at birth' (?). Then it says they are split against liberals who think trans people shouldn't be discriminated against.

I have seen literally no one suggest discriminating against trans people is a good idea.

The issues many liberals, traditionalists and others have is ensuring women aren't discriminated against on the basis of their sex. To ensure that biological sex has to be a definable term, separate from gender identity/how someone feels.

There's two different issues here. One ensuring trans people are supported just like any other group in the BBC. I think that's great and the BBC should do that.

The other is whether the BBC are fairly representing women and how many fear their rights are being eroded by laws, policies etc. This I have serious concerns about. There are lots of things that are already having a negative impact on women, like fair competition in sport, whether in practice women might be booking single sex accommodation but not getting it at the YHA, privacy and consent issues for teenage girls around guides and schools policies etc etc. Where is the BBC in enabling the public debate on this and ensuring all voices are heard? The fact that even women's hour are not all over these issues is inexcusable IMO.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 01/07/2018 11:30

Perhaps there is a correlation between disproportionately high transgender employees and disproportionately low lesbian employees - ie consistent with the M.O. of infiltration of an organisation or movement followed by the ousting of lesbians and feminists?

Opheliah · 01/07/2018 11:33

Hurrah for AGP! That's a twofer that is - trans AND lesbian...oh shit AND a woman - massaging those horrendous gender pay gap figures

Too true

Baroquehavoc · 01/07/2018 11:39

I would be interested in how senior these people are too.

Around 2%, or 1 in 50 employees, doesn't seem huge, but it's significantly higher than what we are told the general population is.

Or perhaps 2% population is trans, and self id will have a greater impact on women and girls than previously thought.

R0wantrees · 01/07/2018 11:44

Tunde Ogungbesan, the BBC's director of diversity who features in the article was present and a speaker at the recent Westminster Conference.

Discussed here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

Wanderabout · 01/07/2018 11:48

Just seen Sunday Politics and they had the Editor of Pink News on to give his about as biased as possible views about the impact of Self-ID law and policies on women's rights with NO dissenting voice. Just him.

Can you imagine if it had been the other way round and say Janice Turner had been discussing it with no trans point of view. The BBC would never have allowed it to run.

Wanderabout · 01/07/2018 11:49

To be clear there was a good balanced bit before this with Man Friday/Jane Fae.

But there should have been both points of view to discuss this.

OldCrone · 01/07/2018 11:51

Wanderabout
The article appears very confused about the wider debate. It says traditionalists think gender is 'assigned at birth' (?). Then it says they are split against liberals who think trans people shouldn't be discriminated against.

This really sums up the lack of understanding of the issue in most people's minds. They think that trans ideology is 'progressive' when in fact it is a regressive movement which seeks to reinforce stereotypical gender roles. They don't even mention in the article the genuinely progressive view that everyone should be free to live as they wish and dress as they wish, but you can't change sex.

And by saying that men cannot become women just because they believe themselves to be women, or declare themselves to be women, does not mean that anyone wants transgender people to be discriminated against.

ItIsOnlyAnOpinion · 01/07/2018 11:52

www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/contact_us/making_a_complaint.html

MillyTheKid · 01/07/2018 12:41

People on both sides of any debate seem to think the BBC is biased against them.... Conservatives and Labour, Brexiteers and Remainers etc etc. Maybe that means they actually generally get the balance right. If the BBC was really running a pro-trans agenda then I suppose they wouldn't have had people like Venice Allan, Lucy Masoud etc on their radio and TV programmes.

MsSensibleWay · 01/07/2018 12:46

It would be very interesting to find out what the wording of the question was. What if the question was "do you identify with the gender you were assigned at birth?" And all the gender critical feminists ticked no.
I'm probably being over optimistic!

Baroquehavoc · 01/07/2018 12:58

Just seen Sunday Politics and they had the Editor of Pink News on to give his about as biased as possible views about the impact of Self-ID law and policies on women's rights with NO dissenting voice. Just him.

I wonder why he got to express his opinion without any challenge?

Ereshkigal · 01/07/2018 13:08

Hopefully this finding might raise serious questions about their clear bias on this issue.

R0wantrees · 01/07/2018 13:44

Dr Nicola Williams:
"The BBC has a duty to report political and social debates fairly and ensure all voices are heard. Some people try to silence women in this debate so we’re asking the BBC to reassure women that their views will be heard."

twitter.com/AskNic/status/1013401719139635200

Ever wondered about the BBC's pro-trans agenda? This is why
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/07/2018 15:33

Placemarking

StephieWoodcock · 01/07/2018 16:10

@MillyTheKid

"People on both sides of any debate seem to think the BBC is biased against them.... Conservatives and Labour, Brexiteers and Remainers etc etc. Maybe that means they actually generally get the balance right. If the BBC was really running a pro-trans agenda then I suppose they wouldn't have had people like Venice Allan, Lucy Masoud etc on their radio and TV programmes."

^THIS!!!^

R0wantrees · 01/07/2018 16:24

From the Fairplay For Women Open letter to Tony Hall -BBC Director General (see tweet above):
fairplayforwomen.com/open-letter-to-bbc/

(extract)
"Transwomen are women” is opinion not fact
We do not feel the BBC has given due weight to such critical and far reaching issues that have the potential to affect every woman and girl in Britain today. And none of these questions can be even considered in a political debate if the conversation starts from the assumption that transwomen are exactly the same as biological women.

We understand this is a complicated and sensitive subject. We are firmly for respectful debate, and have no wish to unnecessarily offend. But too much is at stake here for too many women, and we must be able to have a full and frank debate as a nation. We cannot do that if assertions are presented as though they are fact, uncritically and without question.

The essence of our concern is that the BBC, consciously or otherwise, appears to be accepting and reporting as facts things that are in fact the subject of contention. The manner in which BBC content describes and reports aspects of the debate around transgender people and their legal rights means that the BBC is effectively taking a side in that debate, instead of upholding its commitment to neutrality and balance.

The manner in which BBC content describes and reports aspects of the debate around transgender people and their legal rights could mean the BBC is effectively taking a side in that debate, instead of upholding its commitment to neutrality and balance... (continues).

WanderingWavelet · 01/07/2018 16:26

I have seen literally no one suggest discriminating against trans people is a good idea

This is the point isn't it: we can support the nance of hard-won women's rights to full human status - safety, safe single-sex spaces, sex-specific health care as needed, the right to define ourselves & our roles, the right to speak about how lived experience, the right to speak about the realities of our bodies - we can support all that, and insist that trans people do not face discrimination, and are also accorded full human status.

We don't have to submit to extremist activist demands that women's rights are subservient to trans rights, however.

placemats · 01/07/2018 16:32

Next job I go to I'm identifying as bisexual.

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