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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I have taken a stand!

39 replies

Sadcister · 04/05/2018 11:56

After hearing that the YHA now allow trangender people "to use the facilities they feel more comfortable with", I rung them up.

  • I asked about the transgender policy, got put on hold, then was told how inclusive they are etc.
  • I then asked about how that worked with single sex facilities and got put through to a manager.
  • She said that they have mixed-sex bathrooms, but the single-sex dorms.
  • Apparently they allow transgender people to choose, but she hinted that they look at "how they present".
  • She said a lot about how they do multiple ID checks to check that people who are known to be a problem can't enter.
  • She said if they had a problem, or another guest, that they'd be accomodated in a single room. (unclear who'd be moved)
  • I asked if the other guests in the "single sex" female dorm would be told there was a biological male in there. - she said no, because it's private etc.
  • She also said that the staff might not know - and I pointed out that they did ID checks, but she said that they might not want to disclose that.
  • She also mentioned that they were "in line with the equality act" and - I said that I believed she had been misinformed, as the equality act does allow for single-sex provision.

I then said I was sorry, but I would have to cancel my membership, as I wouldn't feel comfortable having booked a female-only dorm (as I always do), that there might not only be females in there!

I do feel sorry for the YHA, as they do great work, but as a solo traveller much of the time, I have always booked female-only dorms. So it's no use to me being a member if I can no longer be assured of that any more.

OP posts:
spontaneousgiventime · 04/05/2018 12:02

Well done you. I think in the end the fiscal power women have is what is going to win this. When you think how many women there are compared to trans, business is going to have to think what they want - money or diversity awards.

Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 12:04

Sadly I agree. And while I feel bad for putting a tiny bit of financial pressure of an organisation like YHA (who I generally think are great), I think it's the only way any change may occur.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 12:05

I would boycott topshop but I've never shopped there anyway lol!

OP posts:
spontaneousgiventime · 04/05/2018 12:06

Me neither, horrible place.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 04/05/2018 12:10

Good for you! It is only people doing this that will change things, I think.

DarthArts · 04/05/2018 12:20

It's sad it's come to this.

Organisations that implement such policies show firmly what they think about women's safety.

They can let men into single sex spaces but they one thing they can't do is force women to stay in them nor use their services.

ToeToToe · 04/05/2018 12:34

Organisations are so busy tripping themselves up in their eagerness to show how progressive and inclusive they are, they're forgetting basic safeguarding.

The mantra Tranwomen are women = transwomen can go into the women's dorms.

The push for self ID means any man can self-identify as a woman = men can now get into the women's dorms.

I don't much like the idea of mixed sex bathrooms either.

Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 12:35

Yes I hate mixed-sex bathrooms, but that's just me! There's always piss all over the place :S

OP posts:
UpstartCrow · 04/05/2018 12:40

Well done!

How can they possibly think this is acceptable?;
''- Apparently they allow transgender people to choose, but she hinted that they look at "how they present".''

For one thing, the concept of passing/not passing is vile. For another, it places too much responsibility/power on the person doing the judging.
I wouldn't want to be judged on my looks to get in anywhere.

PermissionToSpeakSir · 04/05/2018 12:43

Thank you for doing that.

Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 12:46

@UpstartCrow yes I thought it was weird... but I was a bit flustered so didn't challenge it.
I think it was meant that the receptionist would try to guage if someone was taking the piss...

OP posts:
invisibleoldwoman · 04/05/2018 12:54

Good for you and thanks for making a stand. I’ve been thinking that although it may take a while eventually businesses/organisations will realise that their female customer base has just faded away. We often don’t like confrontation and will go along way to avoid it.

The really annoying thing is that we have to change our habits in order to feel comfortable.

SuitedandBooted · 04/05/2018 13:04

Hi Sadcister,

Would you mind if I copied and pasted your post, please, and included it in a letter to my MP? (whom I will be meeting shortly - can't wait!!)

ToeToToe · 04/05/2018 13:06

Yes I hate mixed-sex bathrooms, but that's just me!

I really don't think it is Wink

I think some women feel they have to virtue signal a bit, and be "nice" - some maybe genuinely don't care - but I think a good proportion would prefer just sharing with women.

Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 13:09

Hi @SuitedandBooted that's fine! Would you mind PM-ing me a draft before you send it please?

OP posts:
Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 13:13

I think my problem really is that it's advertised as "single-sex" but then it's not.
If they advertise it as "mixed-sex" people could just choose to avoid it if they felt uncomfortable.
But since you might not even know!?
And the "if you were uncomfortable" thing doesn't really work, as you have people coming in and out of dorms at all times. You might check in at 8pm and go straight to your dorm, see 4 other women and think "well yep that's fine" and go to sleep. Then someone rolls in at 1am and you wake up to see a biological male, who's been there while you're unconscious and vulnerable in your nightie.

OP posts:
invisibleoldwoman · 04/05/2018 13:18

@Sadcister yes exactly. They are misleading people. I don’t think most of these organisations jumping on the inclusive bandwagon have thought it through at all.

SuitedandBooted · 04/05/2018 13:20

SadCister

Will do Smile
I have already written to him, and got a very C & P response, about how organisations were upholding the Equality Act under current legislation blah, blah,...
I will be clearly demonstrating that they are NOT!!

Original poster
Sadcister · 04/05/2018 13:51

@SuitedandBooted well done! I need to write to mine too... she's a labour woman so not sure how that'll go!

OP posts:
Elletorro · 04/05/2018 14:04

Hi suited.

May I suggest asking for a meeting in your letter?

I did and got a call within 12 hours

AskMeHow · 04/05/2018 16:06

I've emailed them about this too. I wonder what reply I will get?

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 04/05/2018 16:13

"Look at how they present"? I'm assuming this doesnt include looking down their pants?

changeypants · 04/05/2018 16:17

And I can't keep saying this enough - many woman who have experienced trauma at the hands of men will not be able to do anything if they feel uncomfortable in the above situation. The freeze response is involuntary.

ReluctantCamper · 04/05/2018 16:19

Thank you for doing this

BetsyM00 · 04/05/2018 19:49

It is absolutely against the Equalities Act.

Organisations are allowed under the EA to exclude on the basis of sex when providing sleeping accommodation. But the YHA is separating dorms on the basis of gender id - and this is not one of the characteristics for exclusion under the EA.

This results in them being illegally discriminatory against men and TIFs who are excluded from the female gender id allocated dorms.

All overnight shared accommodation is now the same AFAIK. If you can find just one place that still separates by sex I'd love to hear about it.

Women have lost our rights to sleep in shared rooms without any penis owner who chooses to be there too.