Dr Polly Carmichael (Gender Identity Development Service Director)

[BloodyFreezing]

I haven't found a link to an actual video or audio of the talk but there are lots of interesting tweets about a talk she has given today on gender dysphoria - apparently including reference to rapid onset gender dysphoria in adolescents and recommending Transgender Trend as a resource to a parent:

twitter.com/hashtag/acamhMiller18

[UpstartCrow]

I'm pleased to see several professionals giving their opinion that caution is appropriate when treating children, in case they change their minds later.

[FencingFightingTorture35]

I'm very pleased to see that because what I'd seen if her on tv was concerning me (she was featured on the BBC3 programme about the transboy Leo. She seemed to be confirming everything Leo said rather than challenging him at all. Leo, at 16, was rapidly heading down a track to habing a hysterectomy at the first possible chance)

[Nosetothesun]

There is an audio interview with her following her talk within that thread. Sorry, I can't work out how to link it to here but its definitely worth a listen...

[PencilsInSpace]

I just saw this. Isn't it lovely to have a bit of good news

[Ifonlyus]

I was reading some of those tweets last night. It's worth reading the tweets following the hash tag. This was just one part of a conference on children and young people's mental health.

[Datun]

I'm finding those tweets confusing. But it does seem as though they are fully aware of ROGD.

I'm not sure Mermaids even acknowledge it, do they?

And, yes, they recommend Stephanie's schools guide!

Yay.

[Edmundburke]

This is absolutely fantastic news! Something I've been waiting for.

It was only a matter of time before someone like Polly had to urge caution. Polly is one of the leading experts, so this advice is going to be very hard to argue against.

The BACP should know about this, as they effectively told a large number of therapists to ignore this guide.

[GenderApostate]

Fantastic point about BACP

[Ifonlyus]

It's great to see the graphs shared from the conference showing the steep increase in girls being referred to gender identity clinics. How could anyone could look at that and not question what is going on. Interesting also tgat a Psychiatrist tweeted and questioned the use of the phrase 'assigned female at birth' and asked something along the lines of 'must we all use that language'?

Another standout point. Stating that this has been driven socially and not because of evidence. Sorry I can't link or screens hot easily from my phone.

[Edmundburke]

I'm going to try to circulate this as widely as I can.

Polly's comments - which are eminently sensible, and evidence-based - will surely make those who have been so dismissive of the Transgender Trend pack sit up and listen.

I also hope the TRAs pick up on this.

They will either attempt to ignore it, in the hope it will go away/won't be picked up on, or they will publicly demonstrate their outrage, which will shine a light on the dangerous and absurd stance they are taking on 'supporting' children with gender identity issues.

[GenderApostate]

Hopefully it means that Therapists are allowed a differing opinion and now it’s out in the open, more will speak out?

[Edmundburke]

Yes, hopefully.

The problem is that only a handful of therapists were at the conference Polly spoke at, and the BACP have basically told thousands of therapists - many of whom will be working with children with gender dysphoria and their parents - that the TT pack amounts to 'conversion therapy' and they should plough ahead, unquestioningly, with 'affirmation' therapy.

Hence why its important that people know about this.

I'm not on Twitter, but if anyone out there feels able to Tweet people for their comments, in a kind of 'isn't this interesting . . ' kind of way (perhaps the likes of Shon Faye/Lily Madigan etc). I think that would be really helpful.

[archery2]

I see from the #acamhMiller18 hashtag on twitter that the Charlie Waller Trust had a presence at this conference (where Dr Polly Carmichael's positive comments about Transgender Trend have been reported).

That would be the Charlie Waller Trust whose director is Dr Andrew Reeves who forced the BACP magazine to apologise for publishing a letter from Transgender Trend in which they noted the role of social media in the phenomenon of 'rapid onset' dysphoria. From what I've read of the conference, Polly Carmichael seemed to recognise that social media is indeed playing a part in the huge rise in referrals, and even used the 'rapid onset' term in her slides.

[Nosetothesun]

Book review of 'Transgender children and young people: born in your own body, edited by Heather
Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore' by Melissa Migden from Tavistock Centre publ in Journal of Child Psychotherapy
sci-hub.tw/https:/www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0075417X.2018.1435707?scroll=top&needAccess=true&journalCode=rjcp20%20…

[Edmundburke]

That's interesting Archery2.
Are you able to say how you know it was Dr Andrew Reeves who forced the apology?

[Nosetothesun]

Review of Transgender Children and Young People: Born In Your Own Body Edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore in Times Higher Education by Rachel Pain: professor of human geography at Newcastle University. (retweeted by Mermaids twitter account)
twitter.com/rachelhpain/status/974278580795592704

[MsBeaujangles]

In fairness to the Tavi GIDS, Polly seems to have reported what has always been their position- to promote a watchful, waiting approach; recognise that they are working where a strong evidence base is not available to guide them; and being ever mindful about social context. I don't think the Tavi has been or will be unduly influenced by TRAs.

I would like to hear Polly's actual words in relation to the Transgender Trend guidance as I doubt that she would recommend it as a resource (not that I think she would condemn it either). It seems as though she may have mentioned it following a question from the floor about parent's concerns about transing (or words to that effect). I can imagine her saying, 'yes, there is a good document that captures some of the thinking on this'. I cannot imagine her saying 'I recommend the document as a resource for schools'.

I think some of the document (towards the end) over simplifies some issues that the Tavi would think is unhelpful.

[Edmundburke]

Yes, it would be very useful to know exactly what Polly said. Does anyone know how we could clarify this?

I think the information came from a twitter account. Any chance someone who is on Twitter could contact the person who tweeted for clarification?

[BloodyFreezing]

This is an audio recording of a panel discussion at the event, which she took part in. I haven't had time to listen to it yet so don't know if this is where she mentioned Transgender Trend:

twitter.com/acamh/status/974676428972220417

[BloodyFreezing]

This is the interview Nosetothesun mentioned.

soundcloud.com/user-664361280/polly-carmichael-on-gender-dysphoria-at-the-emanuel-miller-memorial-lecture-2018

[archery2]

EdmundBurke

Andrew Reeves is the chair of BACP. After the letter was published, @mimmymum tweeted Dr Reeves: "You may want to know that BACP therapists are incredibly unhappy that the BACP has been publicising propaganda from debunked and harmful sources that could damage trans children. As the parent of a trans child I am also dismayed." (28 Feb) She linked to this letter of complaint that was doing the rounds:
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeP_K4vrSiTqsXpxNqYjyXAvZgQLKiApRIrC7rlgI71RxL-HA/viewform

Dr Reeves replied: "I entirely understand and agree with your points. The letter should not have been published. Please see an unreserved apology, which will also appear in 'Therapy Today.'" (4:08pm 1 March).

@mimmymum wrote back "Thank you Andrew for reviewing and clearly stating yours and BACP's position in opposition to the Transgender Trend article."

I was also told by an authoritative source that the BACP told Therapy Today to publish the apology.

[Edmundburke]

Thanks Archery. I didn’t know Andrew Reeves was the chair.
Very interesting, and a staggeringly poor judgement call for him to have made.

I am going to write to push for a response.

[archery2]

@mimmymum has described Mumsnet as "the online hate platform of choice!" (10:49am, 8 Jan 18).

It would be great to get a response from BACP. I wrote to the magazine but haven't had an official response:

What a pity you felt a need to publish a letter of apology on your website, about the letter you published from Stephanie Davies-Ari concerning your December 2017 article ‘Putting gender on the agenda.’

Naturally, the opinions of letter writers need not reflect the editorial line of a magazine. You say that you ‘fully accept that this letter should not have been published’ but don’t explain why, other than that BACP ‘is in complete opposition to the position and values of Transgender Trend.’ What this issues needs above all is reason, calm and discussion, but your letter read as a denunciation. I’m sorry that you could not extend some understanding to Stephanie Davies-Ari.

In your article you yourself recognise that the issue of children “is a particularly sensitive area”; that there are “distressed parents, who are struggling to understand”; that “counsellors tend to be nervous” about doing this kind of work; that our "state of knowledge is very patchy”; and that young people can change their minds. Your letter betrays just what a jittery situation this has become.

Naturally, you come at this issue from the specialist perspective of your magazine’s readers and Stephanie Davies-Ari has a different perspective. Both have valid contributions to make in this complex area.

What troubled me most was BACP saying they were 'in complete opposition to the position and values of Transgender Trend' because that's stepping way beyond the content of Stephanie's letter. And surely the values of Transgender Trend are eminently sensible and inoffensive - how could a reasonable person be in complete opposition to them?

[SonicVersusGynaephobia]

Interesting also tgat a Psychiatrist tweeted and questioned the use of the phrase 'assigned female at birth' and asked something along the lines of 'must we all use that language'?

Oh good. I'm glad to hear medical professionals questioning this

[TerfsUp]

This is definitely a step in the right direction.

I had been feeling gloomy about trans ideology but between the Man Friday articles in The Times and The Daily Mail and this conference, I am feeling more hopeful.

BTW, I notice that The Guardian, that rag, failed to cover the Man Friday swimapalooza, no doubt because it wasn't about transwomen.

The fiery, flaming, financial death of The Guardian cannot come soon enough.