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80 % more transgender prisoners in last year and half are sex offenders

(19 Posts)
SeaRabbit Sun 03-Dec-17 07:09:15

Short article in The Times:

christinarossetti Sun 03-Dec-17 07:53:55

Interesting. How are MofJ monitoring, does anyone know? I thought that there was an absence of data hence Fair Play for Women doing their own analysis

Datun Sun 03-Dec-17 08:28:40

They decided to monitor after that Fairplay article, I believe.

The numbers just about tally, except there are even more trans prisoners than Fairplay thought.

Undeniable now though.

busyboysmum Sun 03-Dec-17 09:03:19

So the Independent need to apologise about this terrible article.

In fact there are far more trans in prisons as this report doesn't even include those with a GRC as they are living in the prison of their new sex and aren't counted as trans. Mainly as women I would imagine and showing why suddenly women are raping people and committing other unexpectedly violent crimes.

HermioneWeasley Sun 03-Dec-17 09:07:03

I’m really worried about these violent men and sex offenders being classed as woman. The next thing is we’ll all be told there’s been a hug jump in women committing sexually violent crimes, so we don’t need sex segregation at all.

There was actually an article (in the telegraph I think) earlier this year with the writer pondering why women were committing cri es that MN used to. Except all the example she used were by TIMs. FFS.

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Sun 03-Dec-17 09:07:47

In March Jessica Winfield, a transgender double rapist who was convicted under her previous identity of Martin Ponting, was moved to a women’s jail after having a sex change.

Two months ago Winfield was reportedly segregated after making “inappropriate advances” to female inmates.

This makes me want to vomit.
So this person was in there for what? Six or seven months making sexual advances?

LangCleg Sun 03-Dec-17 09:12:01

This makes me more angry than I can even begin to say.

The UK women's prison estate is tiny. Only about 5,000 women in prison at any one time, almost all incarcerated for debt, prostitution or drug-related sentences. Very few violent inmates. Facilities for dangerous prisoners are scarce because they aren't generally needed.

The women's estate cannot cope with an influx of dangerous prisoners regardless of how they identify. Austerity has completely run down any resource elasticity it has and this government is certainly not going to increase funding to cope with a change in the nature of the women's prison population.

They've already dedicated the prison that Fair Play for Women and Andrew Gilligan wrote about as for sex offenders only as it's a) easier to centralise rehabilitation programmes and b) easier to protect them from other prisoners if they're all in one place.

I suggest a wing of THAT prison should be for TIMs, whether they are sex offenders or not. That way TIMs can be protected from violence from other prisoners, and women prisoners are protected from TIMs.

Datun Sun 03-Dec-17 09:14:37

“The British Psychological Society has warned that some biological men convicted of sex crimes have “falsely claimed” to be transgender “

Except is no such thing as falsely transgender. If you say you’re trans, you’re trans.

No one can refute it.

In fact refuting it gets you in trouble.

SparklyUnicornTractors Sun 03-Dec-17 10:38:31

The comments - one saying it is a derogatory article and several pointing out in return that 'I don't like hearing that' doesn't mean facts can be dismissed as derogatory or hateful. I can't stand the way language has been prostituted to mean new and ridiculous things by this lobby.

Jonathon Pie said that the safe space at the Labour Conference this year was basically a room of people chanting together 'no one say anything I don't agree with!'. I thought he was joking at the time.

pisacake Sun 03-Dec-17 13:17:40

"No one can refute it."

Indeed, that's the point of the proposed Gender Recognition Act

remove diagnosis of gender dysphoria
make it quicker

So far more rapists even than now will transition, and they will get into female prisons with ease.

Ereshkigal Sun 03-Dec-17 13:27:14

It's worth bearing in mind that the prison service automatically houses those with a GRC in the estate of their legal gender. So any person saying that a proposed change to the GRA which removes gatekeeping doesn't affect women is wrong.

nauticant Sun 03-Dec-17 14:00:00

The comments under that Independent propaganda piece are a neat illustration of the gulf between a facts-based position (fairplayforwomen) and a faith-based position (TRAs):

"The conclusions are offensive so we must discredit the facts."

QuentinSummers Sun 03-Dec-17 14:19:04

Ugh. I just read Tris Osbourne on Twitter saying that the number of trans sex offenders is so small as a % of total sex offenders that there is no conclusions to be drawn.
In 2016 there was 126 females in prison for sexual offences and 13,800 men.
So it's fine to include TW as male when it supports your straw man argument. angry

QuentinSummers Sun 03-Dec-17 14:23:50

Just read the article in the OP again. So in fact the total numbers of transgender prisoners quoted are almost the same as females in prison for sex offences in 2016 (125 trans prisoners vs 126 sex offending women). shock
They say 50% of the trans offenders are there for sex offences. Even assuming half of those are trans men, trans women going to women's jails for sex crimes would still increase the number of "women" in prison for sex offences by 25% shock

QuentinSummers Sun 03-Dec-17 14:27:13


christinarossetti Sun 03-Dec-17 16:23:08

Does anyone know if there's been a breakdown of how many TIMs decide to identify as women once they're in prison, compared to TIMs who have already started a transition process before sentencing, although haven't received a GRC at all?

I ask because one of the 'trans prisoner held in jail of wrong gender' news articles a while ago (and it is only ever TIMs prison suicides which are ever mentioned in the press), was a man who had started transitioning before sentence. Jenny Swift was placed in a men's jail on a suspected murder charge and denied access to the meds that she'd been taking, although not prescribed. It sounds like her suicide was in large part due to abrupt withdrawal from these drugs.

This happened about a year ago, when advocating for trans specific wings was regarded as valid, rather than denying trans women their rights to force their way into women's prisons btw. I do think that this is a bit different from someone who only decides to transition once convicted, although I don't think that moving her to a women's prison would have been appropriate for the women there.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole Sun 03-Dec-17 17:20:41

The next thing is we’ll all be told there’s been a hug jump in women committing sexually violent crimes, so we don’t need sex segregation at all.

Yup. And suddenly sexual violence and rape are just as common by women as they are by men. Giving MRAs more ammunition to be dicks, considering they already try to make out sexual violence is not a 'male' crime (overall..yes some women do it to, very few though)

pisacake Sun 03-Dec-17 17:24:39

Strangely (not!), trans-identified female sex offenders are reported as female not male.

Imherefornow Sun 03-Dec-17 22:00:04

Urgh! Someone needs to drag me away from the comment section under that article. I have wasted far too much of my day fending off increasingly absurd arguments.
Frankly Im to the point where I don't give a shit if 50% of trans are in prison for sex offences. Just stick them in their own damned wing in the male estate and fucking leave women alone!

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