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Scottish Government Review of Gender recognition act 2004 consultation now open.

(31 Posts)
ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 09-Nov-17 11:31:23

Apologies for starting a new thread but this is really important - I was thinking itmwoukd be useful if people could summarise the points they make for different questions?

The first point that needs to be made is to explain to the government the difference between sex and gender.... <sigh>

Beingrippedoff Thu 09-Nov-17 12:34:56

Ha! We have both posted this at the same time! I didn't want anyone to miss it on the schools thread

Beingrippedoff Thu 09-Nov-17 12:39:09

I've asked for mine to be deleted so it's there are not 2 different threads going at the same time

LemonJello Thu 09-Nov-17 14:45:29

I’ve had a look and am exhausted at the thought of having to explain it all when the questions start from a place of utter misunderstanding of the issues. It’s like trying to give directions to the local shop to someone who’s setting out from the North Pole 🙈

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 09-Nov-17 15:02:12

Yy. I kind of started and gave up too.

It's really worrying that they don't understand that legislation needs to be precisely worded and that sex and gender don't mean the same thing.

Also everything apart from the first question assumes that you are in favour and just quibbling about details.

Are there any organisations who are likely to disagree with it?

I saw a worryingly triumphal SNAP post about how much they are doing for trans folk - I'm slightly concerned that this is all a foregone conclusion. sad

Thelilywhite Thu 09-Nov-17 16:05:07

I done it but am now worried my comments may have been a bit superficial.

Beingrippedoff Thu 09-Nov-17 16:14:39

I emailed my MSP and she's agreed to meet me to discuss at her next surgery. She sounded open to considering the options. A chink of light perhaps. I hope it's a free vote and they are not all just expected to tow the party line.
I do think it's worth contacting your MSPs about this though

caoraich Thu 09-Nov-17 18:45:50

Thanks for sharing this
I have completed it. I have a fairly interesting job in that I work with people with serious mental health problems, and I also work in prisons and for the courts. I answered in this context- giving examples of issues that could come up in prison environments and other environments where people are detained against their will; thereby making other people vulnerable.
I also talked about how this would allow heterosexual couples to get civil partnerships simply by manipulating the legislation (though actually I think this is no bad thing in principle, I would rather have a civil partnership than a wedding!)
They send a PDF of your response once you complete it. Happy to DM my response if anyone wants to have a look at what my thoughts were.

furiousandmad Fri 10-Nov-17 03:39:42

Anyone seen this? Soo depressing -

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 10-Nov-17 08:02:19

Indeed - some good comments underneath though.

Unsustainable Fri 10-Nov-17 11:38:38

Would anyone around central Scotland like to team up to visit some MSPs and MPs, write letters, etc? Please PM me.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 10-Nov-17 17:50:46

No offence, but I would be very wary about DMing someone with no posting history about this subject.

TRAs are well known for threats and doxxing.

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 18:10:27

What was the Fb link? Looks like it's been taken down.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 10-Nov-17 18:24:19

FB link (which is still there)

"Today is the launch of the Scottish Government consultation on improving the Gender Recognition Act 2004. Alongside our sister organisations Scottish Women's Aid Equate Scotland Women 5050 Close the Gap Zero Tolerance and Rape Crisis Scotland, we welcome the reform of the Act & look forward to continuing to work with our colleagues at Scottish Trans Alliance.

Read our joint statement on our blog via the link below.

EDIT: Engender welcomes feedback on our work, especially from our members, but some comments under this post suggest that there might be some confusion about what this consultation includes. We will be generating an FAQ next week, as the first step of producing a coalition response to the consultation itself, and will of course share that here. We look forward to seeing some of you at our AGM tomorrow and will be back online on Monday."

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 18:28:52

Maybe it's my settings. Thank you smile

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 18:31:30

I saw that Engender thing on some transactivist's twitter yesterday.

It's shitty that Women's Aid and Rape Crisis are supporting this.

PencilsInSpace Fri 10-Nov-17 19:18:38

I just had a trawl through, it's shocking!

Question 15 invites comments on, among other things, the equality impact assessment they have done. This is how much thought they have given to the effect on those of us impacted because of the protected characteristic of 'sex'.

BTW, for anyone wondering, they appear to be accepting views from people in Scotland, people in the rest of the UK and people in the rest of the world.

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 19:24:43

Oh good. I will fill it out and encourage everyone else I know to do so.

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 19:26:33

Just read your image. Fucking fucking hell that's atrocious. How dare theyangry

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 10-Nov-17 19:39:29

The whole consultation (apart from the first question) seems to be assuming that this will all be a done deal.

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 19:40:18

I think they do think that. It's a paper tick box exercise for them.

PencilsInSpace Sat 11-Nov-17 15:09:19

This is strange - Annex K - list of organisations who have been sent the consultation - out of 117 orgs, 35 are christian faith groups (~30%) and if you add up all faith groups it's 57 (~49%)

19 LGBT orgs (including NHS gender ID services), of which 8 are faith based (42%)


Only 3 women's groups - Engender, Scottish Rape Crisis, Scottish Women's Aid, all of which appear to be endorsing the proposals angry

RunningWild12 Sat 11-Nov-17 15:24:10

I think it is a done deal. But equally, I think we do need to organise and get meetings with our MSPs and see if we can find at least one who would maybe host a meeting like David Davies MP did in House of Commons. Am going to meet a couple of friends next week and see if we can build some collective action. The women's groups mentioned above that support this don't represent the breadth of women's views in Scotland. At the moment we're shut out of any decion making structures.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 11-Nov-17 15:31:45

Having spent considerable time responding to Scottish Government consultations I am sceptical there is any point in doing so

The ones I responded to start from an agenda with the aim of getting to conclusion the Government wants which it then gets.

I am not responding to this one. The Law Society of Scotland is , as always, a consultee. Whilst I am a member of

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 11-Nov-17 15:37:07

Oops posted too soon- whilst I am a member of one the Law Society's policy committees this consultation is not within the remit of my commitee.

I disagree with the suggestion that transitioning should no longer be a ground for divorce/dissolution of a civil partnership. It should not be for the person who transitions but certainly should be, should they wish to do so, for the other spouse or partner.

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