Why isn't rape a hate crime?

[grimbletart]

Just that really.
I was reading about the reported increase in hate crimes involving race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and transgenderism.

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34515763

To be a rapist you really have to hate or despise women or you couldn't inflict such pain and humiliation on them.

I'm sure plenty of posters will come along and say I'm impractical, wrong, daft or whatever, but to me, as well as issues such as control, entitlement etc. rape really is a crime of hate.

So why not?

[WhereTheFuckIsMyFuckingCoat]

In my opinion, it is because it can be put in a far more severe bracket of assault, actual bodily harm etc, which would attract much more severe sentencing. Although, that is, as I said, only my opinion, and possibly wishful thinking.

[Lottapianos]

I agree with you, and I would include sexual harassment, sexual assault and sexist abuse online as hate crimes as well.

Although of course, men can be victims of all of the above. Would they only count as hate crimes if committed against women?

[SixtyFootDoll]

Men can be raped as well.

[KondosSecretJunkRoom]

Men can be raped as well but, tbf, that's not the point. Anyone of any religion, race or sexual orientation can be beaten or raped also, what makes it a hate crime is that they have been targeted because of one of the signifiers above. When men rape women the individual assaulted has been targetted for their gender, so it should also, in my view, be a hate crime.

[KondosSecretJunkRoom]

Although, I suppose you would have to demonstrate that the rapist hated women as a class and not just their individual female victim.

[Lottapianos]

'Anyone of any religion, race or sexual orientation can be beaten or raped also, what makes it a hate crime is that they have been targeted because of one of the signifiers above. '

You're right. People of colour used to be expected to put up with racist name calling as just being the way of the world, a bit of banter, all that nonsense. No reasonable person thinks that way now. And yet, sexist language and behaviour are taken nowhere near as seriously as racist language and behaviour. We have a very long way to go. If sexist crimes were treated as hate crimes, it might mean that over time, these behaviours were taken a lot more seriously by the general population

[Italiangreyhound]

Rape is a hate crime and should be treated as such. Where is the on line petition about this or the letters to the MPs?

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Probably because it mostly happens to women, and women don't count for shit.

[ALassUnparalleled]

I don't think saying rape should be treated a hate crime makes sense. If all rape is a hate crime what difference does that make? Or are you suggesting rape of men or boys is rape but if the victim is female it is aggravated as a hate crime?

The application of aggravating circumstances to turn a crime into a hate crime can be used in different types of crime.

For example graffiti on its own is a crime but spraying racist slogans is an aggravated crime. Assault is a crime but picking your victim because they are a different race from you is an aggravated crime. Vandalism is a crime but vandalising your neighbour's house because he or she is a different religion is an aggravated crime.

For the concept of hate crime to apply to rape it would be necessary to have some form of the crime of rape which could be committed without aggravating circumstances. How would that work?

If you are talking about stiffer sentences all round , fair enough, or a recognition that rape has other motivations than sexual, fair enough, but a blanket statement that all rape is a hate crime is meaningless.

[grimbletart]

There you are. I predicted someone would come along and say it's daft. So that's me told

[AnyFucker]

It took 4 posts before somebody said what about the menz

Christ, it never ceases to amaze me how utterly dense some people are

[ALassUnparalleled]

I wasn't saying "what about the menz" I was trying to distinguish between a rape that was an "ordinary " rape and a rape that is aggravated as a hate crime.

If all rape is a hate crime then the term "hate crime" is meaningless in relation to that crime.

Although, I suppose you would have to demonstrate that the rapist hated women as a class and not just their individual female victim

Yes you would. Which could backfire spectacularly. Rapist says "no, I don't hate women, hell, I don't even hate this paricular woman. I was just too drunk/ carried away/ couldn't stop, but I don't hate woman. I'll plead guilty to rape but not if you try it as a hate crime"

I get what you are meaning OP but in the context of what the law defines as a hate crime it doesn't work.

[ALassUnparalleled]

OP if you had said courts are too lenient or fail to understand the motives are more than sex I completely agree.

[OddSocksHighHeels]

I think our actual laws are good, they just aren't handing out sentences that they can. The maximum sentence for rape is life in prison in the UK. We legally recognise that rape is serious. Does anybody get life though? Do they fuck! Even if it's a rapist who has committed multiple rapes and it's aggravated by GBH etc you aren't looking at life. Not even close. This, to me, is where it needs to change. Why have a max sentence of life if you never enforce that? Or even close to it ie in line with murder or GBH etc?

I don't think it can be a hate crime because it isn't just against women. I don't mean this in a way about "what about the menz" but it's a crime that's committed against the more vulnerable. This will often be women but there are children (both sexes) and men too. I don't think it is a hate crime. I think it's a fucking horrible thing that deserves the life sentence attached but, personally, don't see it as a hate crime against women. This may be personal situations making me feel that way though. I certainly wouldn't tell you that you were daft for thinking so at all, it's a valid point.

[AnyFucker]

Lass, can't you count ?

[scallopsrgreat]

Of course rape is a hate crime. It has been used by men to subjugate women for millennia. Just because some men are raped too does not negate that.

[scallopsrgreat]

Kondo's post up thread explains that really well.

[scallopsrgreat]

And yes when men rape women it is a hate crime lass, just like when a group of white guys beat up a black guy it is a hate crime in the way that beating up a white boy wouldn't be.

Because of systematic oppression, because they are raping the person because of their sex.

[IrenetheQuaint]

I find it extraordinary that someone shouting racist abuse to a random black person can be convicted of a hate crime, but someone shouting sexist abuse to a random woman can't. Sex and race are both protected characteristics under the Equalities Act, but sex isn't included in the hate crimes legislation (why can this be, I ask myself, rhetorically).

I don't think all examples of men raping women would necessarily be hate crimes... It's a v. interesting point but I need to think about it more.

[scallopsrgreat]

Why wouldn't all examples of men raping women be a hate crime? Genuine question btw.

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

Why wouldn't all examples of men raping women be a hate crime?

Having sex with someone when you're both too drunk to consent could be one maybe?

Or possibly because it's possible to commit an act on a person (rape, assault, theft) without it being a hate crime as Lass explained above.

If you start to treat everything as a "hate crime" then surely it becomes meaningless....