James Bulger - New Revelations

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Just watching this - wondered if anyone else was interested in discussing it

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Really difficult to accept that a child could do this - deliberately. But it happened with Mary Bell.

She was an abused and brutalised little girl - and it seems that Robert Thompson was similarly badly treated.

[namechangeninetynine]

Watching yeah

[rainbowlou]

My son is 10 and I find it extremely difficult to process that they were the same age and capable of doing such an awful thing.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

This early abuse has been shown in the past to damage children irreparably.. In an attempt to get away (emotionally) from the horror, the actually cut off responses in parts of their brains, I think.

It's the only way they can survive.

[CrookedMe]

No, I'm not watching it.

As if there are new revelations that the public need to be aware of. It really shouldn't be dragged up again for public entertainment, I think.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I don't think that this is an "entertaining' programme - there is nothing prurient in it.

It is more raising awareness of how damage done to a child in early life reverberates on ALL of society.

And how much can the child be blamed? Should it be the parents who have abused and terrorised him/her.

[rainbowlou]

I have worked for years with children and young people who have had the most horrific, abusive childhoods..None of them have murdered a child.

[JediJim]

I’m watching. I still can’t accept that two ten year old boys would carry out such a violent murder on a toddler. Surely any human being has a conscience, something tells you to stop.
Poor James. Wrong place, wrong time. I hate watching anything like this but feel I have to try.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

As far as I am aware Mary Bell's mother was never taken to task for the way she was treated (her father was long gone).

Thompson and Venebles parents (particularly Thompson's - he was terrified of his brutal father, it appears) were not held responsible.

But how far back do you go in this blame game? And how many generations are affected by one terrible childhood? And most importantly - is there a way to break the cycle?

[JediJim]

Slightly off topic, but a few months ago Ralph Bulger was on Good morning Britain. Piers Morgan asked if he’d like to confront Venables ( who had been arrested again)
I felt that these were insensitive questions to ask a grieving father, I mean what was Ralph supposed to say?

[ThreeGlasses]

I’m not watching but if I remember correctly wasn’t it only one then who’d had a really awful childhood, mother was a prostitute etc, the other seemed to have a normal if not vaguely neglected childhood.

I know bad kids. Kids with shitty lives who most people would look at and write off, but I truly believe you couldn’t convince them to go along with something like this. There seemed to be something utterly missing with these two.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

That's the great mystery isn't it rainbow? - why does one child become an unfeeling sociopath, and another doesn't?

Alice Miller, who has written extensively on child abuse, physical and emotional, is of the opinion that just one supportive adult in a child's life can make all of the difference. Just ONE example of empathy can be instrumental in preventing sociopathy.

[EyeRolls]

@rainbowlou maybe that is the point though- you worked with them, presumably because somebody somewhere got them access to support. By the sounds of it, social services did not get to these kids.
'Urban feral child' 'leaving before anyone was awake, getting home after everyone was asleep'- at 8 years old.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I totally agree with you jedi - I didn't see the programme, but that type f question is wholly inappropriate.

It's like when someone loses their family in a car crash and reporters say "How do you feel?" (Usually in the USA, but starting to happen here)

I always think "WTF"

[Bunnybigears]

Many children have experienced horrific childhoods. A lot of them turn to alcohol, drugs, petty crime, toxic relationships etc. Not many turn into murderers.

[ThreeGlasses]

I recently read the book written by Dylan Klebolds mother (columbine shooter and suicide victim).

There was a lot of research in her book about when “pairs” of kids/teens/adults do something this awful that one is usually the leading force the “psychopath” and the other is just looking for a way out and is led by the other. I remember the news coverage when James was killed and it really focused on how one was the bad kid and the other was a follower

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

'Urban feral child' 'leaving before anyone was awake, getting home after everyone was asleep'- at 8 years old

Not wanting to go home - too afraid. Awful for ny child.

This doesn't excuse what they did - don't think anyone is trying to do that. They (and we, I hope) are trying to understand how, and why, and could it have been prevented - or were these children just "born bad", without any hope of redemption. And if so, is there any way that we can recognise this before something dreadful happens, and step in to change things?

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

That's just what they're saying here Three - that Thompson was branded the "evil" one, and Venables the "follower", but it seems that it isn't always as straightforward as that, and doesn't seem to be in this case.

[JillyArmeeen]

I kind of agree with crooked in that I doubt anything new will come out of this programme.
Do James's family give permission for these things? No idea how it works but I think they should have the right to refuse.
Seeing the bit about Robert Thompson being put of school, out of the house, I do think really his parents should have been held responsible in some way. What happened to the other children in the home?
From everything I have seen previously, even though Jon is the one that has reoffended and blown his cover, as disgusting as his crimes have been, I think it speaks to the fact he has never got over what he did. He has been disturbed by it.
Thompson on the other hand, just gone on to live a so called normal life. That's more scary to me. Shows a lack of empathy. If I had to pick one as a psychopath it would be him.
My own son is only a year younger than those two were, it just doesn't bare thinking about really, what any of those boys went through.
Especially of course poor James.
I hope his family can find some peace.

[JediJim]

So awful. Ralph Bulger sat through the trial, Denise understandably couldn’t. This is hard to watch.

[rainbowlou]

I’m working with 16-18 year olds who were described as ‘urban feral children’, I’ve worked with adults with those awful childhoods..they’ve done some shitty things but not one has murdered a stranger’s baby.
I got into this line of work because of my childhood..Its Never crossed my mind to take it out on someone else!

[Mochachinomumma]

What channel is it on please?

[ThreeGlasses]

Jilly, that’s a really good point, I hadn’t thought about it that way.

[Grace212]

I heard about this, is there any actual information? Seems a bit odd to me.

[Caprisunorange]

In all honesty I can’t see his a child murderer wouldn’t have come from a severely abusive/ neglectful childhood. It’s not like disorders such a sociopathy shiwcat such a young age is it? There isn’t really another explanation for their actions