Throwing things down the stairs - how to stop?

[Jimjams]

Any ideas- before this gets out of hand? Ds1 obviously. He's doing it out of interest. He's being encouraged to throw and kick balls at the moment -but as well as throwing stuf, he also climbs to the top of the stairs (and that bit of the house is 4 stories) and drops things. Some of which are big and heavy (like toy trucks etc). Am rather worried something's going to end up on ds2's head. He seems fascinated by the way things fall. And has favourites like the kiddy toilet seat (now out of reach).

The only way I've managed to stop unwanted behaviour like this in the past is to prevent it happening at all- but I can't shadow him all the time- and I can't remove everything he could possibly throw obviously. He's not very good at being told off after the event doesn't seem to "get it". Any ideas?

[aloha]

Poor you. I can easily see the appeal of hurling things down four flights of stairs and why it is so attractive to him, which makes it worse, I suppose. My only suggestion to possibly try deflecting the obsession to a safer place (ie could you make a slope in the garden (a slide?) he could roll balls & things down for hours?) Or give him a box of special 'throwing things' - like soft toys or soft balls - and wait for the phase to end. And of course, do what you are doing - removing the heaviest and most deadly favourites.

[Jimjams]

He rolls things down the slide already. But tends to get frustrated as they often roll "wrong". It's just anything. He's good at understanding if I catch him in the "act"- but if I respond to a crash he just thinks its funny (and already has had the reinforcement of the thing actually landing). It doesn't help that we live in a house full of stairs- apart from the main set there's a flight down to his therapy room.

He does like rolling balls down the stairs- which is OK I guess- but he gets very frustrated when they don't roll properly - and also he wants them to roll UP the stairs so ends up really cross!

I know we talked about this as an inappropriate behaviour example in the early bird course. There they suggested quickly substituting heavy items for cushions etc- but again that would involve more 1:1 shadowing than I can do with ds2 around.

maybe I need to find an absolute favourite- non-frustrating - safe object and try and condition him to just use that.

Thanks for the ideas aloha.

[tamum]

Almost certainly impossible, but there's no way you could rig up any netting to stop things before they reached ds2's head, could you? It would probably make him even more frustrated even if you could do it though. Aargh.

[maddiemo]

I remember on my eb someone had a child who used to enjoy watching slinkies slide down the stairs. Is it the motion or the crash he enjoys? I think I would go with Aloha's idea of a selection of throwable items (probably in a bag attached to wall that he can dip into.)

[Jimjams]

I don't think nettng would work as the stairwell is quite narrow. It would bounce onto the stairs I think. We already have all our lovely Edwardian decorative stair cut out things (OK I'm no good at descriptions- anyway nice ornate bits on stairs) covered with cardboard after we found ds1 trying to squirm through them 3 stories up. My parent's house is even more of a nightmare. They have modern open plan stairs and he likes to sit on the upstairs landing and dangle his legs over the edge. I hate stairs! We need a bungalow!

I think he likes the motion maddiemo. It's quite noticeable that he likes throwing different extremes of things (soft baby shoes and socks are commonly found at the bottom as well). I think he likes comparing how quickly they fall. He actually leans over the stairwell and drops them straight down- although occasionally he'll throw them donw the actual stairs iyswim.

[charliecat]

Dont whether this is possible or practical, but a stairgate to stop him getting to the stairs? Feel free to ignore that if its too ridiculus!
Or, setting up a piece of wood leaning against the sofa, looking like a slide, and he can adjust its steepness and it might keep him away from the stairs?

[Jimjams]

Stairgates don't really work in our house because of the design of the stairs. Unless they're those really irritating travel barriers he can open them as well. Also he would flip I think- nothing is allowed on the stairs. Ruins the line or something. (The stair obsession has been going on for years- we actually rejected our catchment school as it had way too many stairs and I could see trouble brewing).

Redirecting may be the best bet........

[maddiemo]

A bit way out but....do you think you could try it as a joint attention activity and share a bit of throwing safe items. The joint attention may put him off or it may just make him more keen when you are not there. No matter how hard you try to remove objects he will probably find something else. I think all you can do is let it run its course. Sorry not much help.

[Saker]

Just a suggestion in terms of rolling things - I have used a piece of gutter from Homebase propped up against the back of the settee as a slope for rolling cars, balls etc down. They speed down really well because it's smooth and because it's narrow they might be less potential for things to roll wrong? But maybe it would be too short for satisfaction (especially compared to four flights of stairs) and there is always the temptation to take it down off the back of the sofa....

[aloha]

Jimjams, your ds has the mind of a true scientist! Why can't a ball roll uphill? Will this fall faster than that? Very interesting and important questions I'm sure it's a huge pain though and hope it's a passing phase.

[Thomcat]

oh gosh, I don't know JimJams.
I have a bit of a problem with casting myself, or with Lottie casting.
She throws everything, dinner time can be messy and frustrating and I have been lashed on the head with her bottle a few times. Again like you DS she doesn't get being told 'no'.

My portage told me to try and get her to cast for a reason but I'm guessing it'll be hard to match the joy of watching something fall from 4 storeys.

I can only think that trying to turn him to a different, less worrying, and possibly less damaging and painful, 'experiment'. suppose things that float and things that don't just spell out t-r-o-u-b-l-e don't they. Things is watching how different things fall from 4 floors up is pretty cool and interesting to any young child.

Sorry for being useless mate! Hope he tires of it soon is all I can say really.

[eidsvold]

no helpful ideas but our dd liked doing this in our house in the UK - it was only a two stair drop but nothing we seemed to do worked.... so we were really worried when we moved back to the house here - have internal stairs down to the family room ( 2 short flights) we quickly put up a stair gate and the little monkey has not shown one bit of interest in those stairs at all.... We are a bit more fortunate than you as everything else ( other than playroom and laundry) is on the one level .... perhaps when she gets bored of checking it all out - still quite new - then she may start on the stairs....

As i said - no help but wanted to let you know that he is not the only one

[eidsvold]

oh we have casting issues too - sorry to just hijak this for a minute - glad to hear Lottie does it too ( iykwim) WHen drinks are finished cups/bottles are chucked, along with the odd dinner plate and toys are emptied out of toy box and thrown... I try to sit behind her when I can and catch them in another box and make a big deal about her getting it on the box... no help at dinner time I know....

Just nice to know dd is not the only one...

[Thomcat]

Hey Edisvold, hello love. How was the move? Nice to have you back. How's the bump developing????

Shall we start a casting thread and talk about 'stuff' there?

[Jimjams]

I thnk you are right maddiemo- just need to wait for something to replace it. Just hope it doesn't hang around for too long. Yeas he is quite into examining things aloha. As a 1 year old we used to say he didn't like playing- but like working out how things worked (didn't know he had problems then of course). Apparently he's very into watching sand fall at the moment and requests sand at school (which had me stunned- he's never been able to bear sand). HAS to be dry though. I've just bought him a sand and water table so I think I'll add some sand to it (only used water so far- maybe he'll be happy to use that) Only found that out this morning.

[Eulalia]

Have you tried a slinky for the stairs? Or ball on elastic over the stairwell? It won't fall the same of course. Something my ds likes at the moment is getting a sheet and spreading it over the stairs - I don't know why maybe because they look different, but your ds may hate that.

[Fio2]

jimjams why oh why did we both buy 4 storey houses when stairs are a nightmare? My two can open 2 of our stairgates, which are mainly for the dogs. But I found a really good second hand one that fits at the top by their bedrooms. I have rigged it so I have screwed it into the wall to stop them opening and closing it and so far so good they havent been able to. Cant you rig something up as a stairgate? maybe a homemade one?

Otherwise I dont really know what to suggest. My two both throw things down the stairs but it usually only causes injury to the poor dogs! I am not much help am I?

[Jimjams]

Last time i put a stairgate up on the stairs he headbutted it fio! he really will not tolerate anything on the stairs. I use a travel barrier on both bedrooms until they are asleep - but that doesn't ruin the look for himiyswim.

Ball on elastic may be good but we're trying to stop him leaning over the stairwell at the moment as well.........

[Fio2]

mmmm I know what you mean about the leaning over the banisters aswell playing on the stairs turns my stomach! my mum always used to tell us off for playing on the stairs and now I am the bloody same! ' will you be careful on them stairs, what have I told you about playing on the stairs?' I have turned into my mother!

[Davros]

Don't know how this thead passed me by! Going back to the token economy idea, ABA supervisor says no as its probably sensory and has given me an interesting document for you to assess it. Will have to retype and email it to you at home(won't take me long, PA/sec for 15+ yrs!). Lots of good ideas here, especially try to shape it into something OK using special sack of "safe" throwing things and the ball on string sounds a good idea. I would also try joining him in the "appropriate" form of the activity.
However, must say that this is EXACTLY my DS's favourite stim and has been for years. He loves throwing, sprinkling, pouring, dropping and always has. We have never got rid of it but its gone through lots of permutations, definitely sensory. One good thing, I DO think it helped with toilet training as he was only too keen to see his wee going into potty/loo but must watch out for using end result to stim (ugh!). WIll post more later if I can think of anything.

[Eulalia]

ds seems to be going through a phase of 'smashing' (his word) things at the moment Just as well we only buy 2nd hand toys.

[shrub]

hello jimjams - my ds1 was obsessively doing this last year. his teacher said it was called 'vertical scheming'- piaget and all that. he observed that most children have different schemas to make sense of the world and that trying to understand gravity can manifest itself by the child repeatedly throwing/dropping things until he/she feels they understand it. other schemas are wrapping things. i shall try and find a link

[shrub]

schemas when i found out about this way of learning it made me think completely differently about his behaviour. there is also a centre called 'the pen green centre' which i've found very useful on the subject. they hold regular conferences/workshops/courses on the subject.can't find website at mo but will keep looking
hope it helps x

[Davros]

Wow Shurb, that's really interesting. I love finding something new and I'm going to look at the Pen Green Centre, a new source of conferences, workshops etc not to find time to attend!!

[Jimjams]

Ah thanks shrub.... My old homeoapthy tutor's wife (who lives in Buckland in the Moor btw- so close to you- and is involved in education) gave me an article about schemas a while ago. He is definitely on a vertical schema now- I need to find something to channel it into something more suitable I think!