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Where "The Left" is going wrong.

(35 Posts)
DoctorTwo Sat 19-Oct-13 20:24:32

In fact, where everybody is wrong is that we shouldn't seek to redistribute wealth. What we should be doing is redistributing risk. Explained here sort of. Global GDP is about $50Tn, and the total derivative market is approx $700Tn, much of it underwritten by taxpayers. Surely derivatives, financial bets, call them what you will, should be paid for by those who make them, not us?

Even the student loans they're going to privatise for profit will be underwritten by us, so any defaults will be paid by the taxpayer. This is not capitalism as we had it till the neoliberals came along. Until then financial institutions were allowed to go bust, but now they're kept alive with a combination of bailouts and quantitative easing.

The rules need to be changed back so we have the power back.

contortionist Sat 19-Oct-13 23:49:19

This is not capitalism as we had it till the neoliberals came along. Until then financial institutions were allowed to go bust, but now they're kept alive with a combination of bailouts and quantitative easing.

Perhaps you missed the Lehman brothers collapse in 2008?

DoctorTwo Sun 20-Oct-13 07:02:35

Or Allied Irish, or RBS, or Goldman Sachs, or AIG, or the bailouts of Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece which protected the banks and threw the populace to the wind. And the bail in in Cyprus, where the corrupt banksters stole deposits.

Lehman are the exception. The others should've been allowed to fail, at least that's what would've happened under a capitalist system.

contortionist Sun 20-Oct-13 08:19:23

When do you think this change happened? There were banking bailouts throughout the 1980s and 1990s, and indeed arguably going back to 1825.

DoctorTwo Sun 20-Oct-13 13:55:55

They allowed Barings to go under for losing less than £1Bn, whereas we shelled out over £20Bn to save four or five fraudulent corporations. They actually forced BCCI to shut down for money laundering, yet when HSBC do it they hit them with a fine which we will end up paying through higher fees.

Just this morning JP Morgan Chase have been fined for massive fraud which collapsed the banking system, but no bankers will face court. It's disgusting that they continue to get away with it.

contortionist Sun 20-Oct-13 14:46:05

BCCI wasn't shut down for money laundering, although there's no doubt that its extensive illegal activities did make the authorities reluctant to rescue it.

JP Morgan have agreed to pay a fine, but the criminal investigation is ongoing. It's entirely possible that bankers will end up in court, as they may for the JP Morgan London Whale affair.

You cite Barings as an example of things being done correctly (although it was a small bank with no particular systemic importance), so I assume 1995 was before the rot set in? But there were many bail-outs before then, such as the US Savings & Loan crisis.

I don't believe that there was ever a pre-lapsarian age of pure capitalism in which financial companies were allowed to fail regardless of the societal impact that would have. And nor do I believe that there is now some blanket safety-net for financial organisations. Firms have been allowed to fail, and regulators are addressing the issue of firms being so important or complex that they would have to be bailed out if they got into trouble.

claig Sun 20-Oct-13 15:25:44

Max Keiser is wrong and in fact misleading.

If he really believes that a Chinese backed "global regulator" fronted by the ex-prime minister of France, Dominique de Villepin, will be able to reallocate risk from where it is going now to where they would like it to go, then he is naive.

If he believes that 'the Left' has any say in it, he is also deluded.

At the end of his piece, Max Keiser starts promoting Bitcoin.

In my opinion Bitcoin is a scam and one day it will possibly be deliberately imploded and people who had money in it will probably end up losing all of their money. You have to ask yourself who really controls Bitcoin, who set it up and why.

Conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones, has never trusted it and is far more savvy about what it is and why than Max Keiser.

DoctorTwo Sun 20-Oct-13 15:42:39

BCCI was shut down for many breaches of regulations, money laundering being one of them. JP Morgan are crooks and should be prosecuted, as should most of them.

What does that towering paragon Dacre say about Bitcoin? Bitcoin isn't centrally owned, which is why central banks don't like it. It's also very difficult to counterfeit and is being accepted by more and more businesses globally.

Max Keiser is right about many things, China being one of them. They are starting to taper their investment in US bonds and are buying Euro bonds instead, as well as buying all the gold they can whilst the price is being kept artificially low. They are on course to buying nearly 2000 tonnes this year, on top of mining 400 tonnes, and they will have approx 6000 tonnes, enough to float the Yuan (or Remnimbi) and back it with gold, in which case the dollar will depreciate massively.

Alex Jones is a nutcase of the highest order.

claig Sun 20-Oct-13 15:56:51

'What does that towering paragon Dacre say about Bitcoin?'

I don't think that Dacre talks about Bitcoin at all. If you want to know the truth behind the Bitcoin scam, you need to go the conspiracy theorists not mainstream newspapers.

"Bitcoin isn't centrally owned, which is why central banks don't like it. It's also very difficult to counterfeit and is being accepted by more and more businesses globally."

And you actually believe all that, what the promoters of Bitcoin say? According to some youtube conspiracy theorists, Max Keiser has allegedly said that he is a Bitcoin millionaire. Could it be that he stands to gain from it? Don't believe the hype, listen to the clever conspiracy theorists, not the phoney ones, and don't put any of your hard-earned money anywhere near it.

Sort the wheat from the chaff. Read the Mail and not the Guardian and listen to Jones more than to Keiser.

If you want to guess what will happen in financial markets and in China, then you need to follow politics and power politics and the conspiracy theorists who understand what is not told to us, rather than listening to economic or financial pundits like Max Keiser.

I like Max Kesiser, he is good entertainment and he says some good stuff. But don't believe the hype, stay well clear of Bitcoin and take it all with a large pinch of salt.

claig Sun 20-Oct-13 16:02:31

In fact, if you stick to the Mail, you can't go wrong.

DoctorTwo Sun 20-Oct-13 16:18:43

Max Keiser isn't a conspiracy theorist. He's a former banker turned pundit. Some of his guests are fascinating. People like Andrew Maguire and Alasdair Macleod who are well clued up in what is happening and who is likely behind it. From people like them I know that if I had dollars I'd be selling them to buy gold and Bitcoin.

I won't be reading the Heil. The nicest thing that can be said about my dad is that it was his paper of choice.

claig Sun 20-Oct-13 16:34:53

I like Max Keiser. he has a great show with lots of great guests and he exposes the frauds and scams and crooks behind much of our financial system. He knows his derivatives and his financial onions, but on politics, he is like a child compared to the much more experienced Jones who has over 20 years of analysis of the political scams and crooks and fraudsters as well as the merely financial ones.

"From people like them I know that if I had dollars I'd be selling them to buy gold and Bitcoin."

Well it's lucky you don't have dollars because you would end up being skint.

Don't believe Max Keiser that America is going down the tube and that China will take over. That is nonsense. Because what really counts in this world is power and that is why 'the Left' never get anywhere because they have no real power. 'The Left' are only one side of the Hegelian Dialectic, the other side being 'the Right' and the real powerbrokers play them off in a phoney clash to produce the outcome that they want. Jones will explain all that in great detailand Max Keiser will be confused.

And by the way there are lots of interviews of Max Keiser on the Alex Jones Show, where he is on as a guest.

'The Left' is controlled. They are used in the game. The real objective is a one world currency and a one world government and an end to nation states - similar to the dreams of the communists - who were funded by the real powers behind the scene.

Eventually they will crash our financial system with the debt and risk that they have allocated, and they will implode Bitcoin and our currencies, and then they will get their one world currency and it will be the end of their phoney left-right paradigm, the end of their left-right game and the world will never be the same.

But that is still a long way off, or so we hope.

addenuf Sun 20-Oct-13 17:50:45

Would that I had the powers of Cassandra, as do contributors to this thread. Is there a well of all-knowingness from which I can drink? Or should I just issue a methane alert? Keep it up, chaps, this is more fun than most stuff on offer of a Sunday.

addenuf Sun 20-Oct-13 18:01:44

And I was utterly let down that the thread title was not 'because they're not right'. Pick it up a bit, please.

addenuf Sun 20-Oct-13 18:09:30

that the answer to the thread question..... Bugger Muphry, always strikes when I've got my clever cloggs on.

contortionist Sun 20-Oct-13 20:32:09

I appreciate the thread has moved on, but on the subject of BCCI - it was shut down because it ran out of money, and because the authorities declined to allow a rescue. If it had been solvent, it would have been permitted to continue to operate - there would have been no legal basis to shut it down.

claig Mon 21-Oct-13 12:38:34

'Is there a well of all-knowingness from which I can drink?'

There's the Daily Mail.

addenuf Mon 21-Oct-13 14:05:09

Sorry, Contortionist , my limited knowledge prevents my engaging to much effect.

Claig - methane alert activated wink

claig Mon 21-Oct-13 14:13:00


claig Mon 21-Oct-13 14:18:37

The BCCI story is real, not fiction. Conspiracies are real, not fiction.

"The more you examine the B.C.C.I. story, the more it looks like what conspiracy theorists like to call the Master Conspiracy."

THE OUTLAW BANK A Wild Ride Into the Secret Heart of BCCI

DoctorTwo Mon 21-Oct-13 18:53:54

"From people like them I know that if I had dollars I'd be selling them to buy gold and Bitcoin."

Well it's lucky you don't have dollars because you would end up being skint.

Don't believe Max Keiser that America is going down the tube and that China will take over.

Spot on analysis Claig. Oh wait... It appears that the threat to the Dollar is, to quote Brad Pitt, inevitable.

claig Mon 21-Oct-13 19:25:54

I'll have to read that article because it is from William Engdahl and William Engdahl is a very good and astute geopolitical analyst who says that global warming is a scam and explains why. I like Engdahl, so I will read that in a while and reply.

I've also looked more into Max Keiser and am now convinced that he is a hoaxer, because I already thought Bitcoin was a scam and his promotion of it means that he is not for real in my opinion.

DoctorTwo Mon 21-Oct-13 19:46:40

Another threat to the dollar: the BRICS countries are holding talks that could see them trade in their respective currencies instead of the Dollar.

claig Mon 21-Oct-13 20:00:27

I think Engdahl is right that markets are manipulated and that includes teh gold market. But this is nothing new. Markets and banks have alsways been rescued as contortionist said, and the Plunge Protection Team was set up in 1988 under Reagan

"In March 1988, five months after the worst one-day stock market plunge in history, President Ronald Reagan signed Executive Order 12631. Order 12631 created the Working Group on Financial Markets, known on Wall Street as the ‘Plunge Protection Team’ because its job was to prevent any future unexpected financial market panic selloff or ‘plunge’."

Engdahl says that there is a financial battle going on between two sides and he is probably right.

"In effect a war, a financial war, is underway between the Wall Street giant banks and their close allies, including the major City of London banks and banks like Deutsche Bank on the one side, using paper gold derivatives trading in the unregulated COMEX, with covert support of the US Treasury and Fed. On the other side are real investors and Central Banks who believe that the world financial system, especially the dollar system, is teetering on the brink of disaster and that physical gold is the historical best safe haven in such a crisis."

But the real question that he doesn't ask is who will win this war. I think it will be the United States side and not the Chinese side. As Engdahl said about the 'socialist' Strauss-Kahn

"France’s Dominique Straus-Kahn, demanded an independent audit of the Federal Reserve gold after the US refused to deliver to the IMF 191 tons of gold agreed to under the IMF Articles of Agreement signed by the Executive Board in April 1978 to back Special Drawing Rights issuance. Immediately before he could rush back to Paris, he was hit by a bizarre hotel sex scandal and abruptly forced to resign. Straus-Kahn had been shown a secret Russian intelligence report prepared for President Vladimir Putin in which ‘rogue’ CIA agents revealed that the US Federal Reserve had no gold reserves and only lied that it did."

If the American elite want to win, then they will win.

The real determining factor is power and in the end military power. With power you can get money, but with money you cannot get power. America can dictate what will happen and if the stakes are really high, then America can use its power.

People like Max Keiser pretend that Bitcoin, which is scam in my opinion, can "end the Fed". He is not stupid, so I can only assume he is lying. He seems to ignore the power that lies behind the Fed and the power of the global banks, and a digital currency that can be collapsed and manipulated cannot ever threaten the Fed or real power.

However, I do also believe the conspiracy theorists (not Max kesier because he is merely a financial conspiracy theorist and not a political one who also take account of factors such as the power of the Fed and of military power etc) that the New World Order's ultimate aim (along with the global warming scam etc) is to one day bring in a one world currency and one world government, and they believe that this will require teh collapse of our current financial system in order to bring in the new system of the new age and the new world order. I don't know if they will achieve it or when it might happen. I hope it won't be happening in my lifetime, but one never knows.

But if that is not on the immediate cards, and if America wants to win the battle, then I have no doubt that America will win.

America has the power and has often in the past devalued the dollar in order to wipe out its debt. It may do so again, but in the long run, that will harm China and America will return even stronger.

claig Mon 21-Oct-13 20:04:59

'the BRICS countries are holding talks that could see them trade in their respective currencies instead of the Dollar'

There is a conspiracy theory that the riots in Brazil a few months ago were a CIA plan. America has the power to disrupt any plans that threaten it, and I am glad of that, because America shares our values and we are part of the same culture.

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