Become a Lawyer with no degree..(14 Posts)
If you no longer need to go to university to become an accountant or lawyer then I am struggling to see why anyone would want to go to university and be landed with the student debt and additional taxes etc unless they were going to work in some capacity for the government eg for NHS as doctor or other professional eg speech therapist, or as teacher - as degrees are essential for these professions...
Is the government trying to shut down universities due to lack of demand?
You can already become a lawyer without a degree if you go through ilex
plebs get to go to uni and get to have good jobs
too many plebs about - we need to think to a way to screw them out of money
introduction of student loans
that's not enough - says mr hoipoloi
let the universities charge too
< rubs hands in much glee whilst charging for my second home in london and having the cats litter tray cleaned by topless maid at taxpayers expense>
universities are a hot bed of free thinking political activism and since the old polys became universities, then you have reletively uneducated plebs playing at being educated and its really just a left wing warmbed with an undercurrent that gets it's political views from satirical panel shows.
so mr hoipoloi introduces professions without the need for a degree - let that fly for 10 years
re introduce it once the plebs have been squeezed out of education and they think they dont need it
bobs your topless maids brother who is also on the payroll as your rent boy ..so to speak
I think a lot of people will go for this. Many of ds friends have dropped out and those set to go next year very undecided. I think that the plebs as it were are being encouraged into HE as they are offered preferential loans and extra £ and the biggest uptakeminnthe last few years has been from towns in the north where unemployment of school and college leavers was dire. I think they want these people in education and indebted because then they will 'own' them. It is the middle classes (looking at my immediate) that seem to be saying sod uni and debt we are going to look at an alternative and this will fast track them into the jobs they want and there will be even less employment for graduates. It's a mess for sure .
I don't think this is the end of a university education at all. Many students are already sponsored through courses by organisations that want them to be very specifically educated in a particular area. So even if they go the route of joining a law firm, say, and working their way up, they will still be expected to complete professional exams along the way in order to be able to operate properly within the field. I doubt there will be enough places to accommodate everyone that wants to go this route. Don't forget, also, that many students embark on a uni career not at all sure what they want to do with their qualification at the end, some switch horses mid-stream, others get highly qualified in one subject but then make a career in something completely different or give up work entirely, stay home with a family or whatever.
Btw custardo... NB hoi polloi is from the greek and means simply 'the many'. We are all hoi polloi therefore... Mr or otherwise.
Yup, accountants and lawyers have never needed a degree. It just takes many years.
DH is a chartered accountant without a degree. It took exactly the same amount of time to train as colleagues who took the uni route!
My sister is an accountant and didn,t go to university either She is mortgage and debt free by her 30s.
My ds wants to be an accountant (he is currently year 9 so that may change) and he is already saying he thinks an apprenticeship is the way to go, he's good with figures (obviously) and he's worked it out and decided a degree is financially a bad idea.
I'm training to be a solicitor via ILEX so effectively no degree. Is taken me there years so far and I've another three to go (plus five years in practice).
My tutor teaches both ilex and law for degrees. There really is very little difference in terms of educational value, in fact he states that managing both studying and working FT (as many ILEX studies do) is much harder, shows dedication to education and sets many students above those at degree level due to their commitment.
I've had enough of people with degrees (usually poor degrees too) tell me that I will be a lesser lawyer than those who have degrees. I am learning a new skill set that is essentially the same as all the other solicitors. Admittedly, I'm not putting myself at the same level as someone who read Law at Oxford, but as long as my work is of a good standard and I pass all of my exams (which have gotten harder due to criticisms like those of the OP) then I really fail to see why I should be prevented from practicing law?
It's not an 'easier' route at all btw. I had to prove I had the correct a levels to get onto to course. I passed the first two years (which contains eight examinations) and now take two courses a year which comprise of end of year examinations. If you fail anything at any point you cannot continue through the course, you have to start over, which includes the cost. Plus, I'm paying through the nose for it. With most individual courses costing over £1K (im taking six individual courses, and two legal skills units costing £800 each, also this doesn't include the first two years costs either) and no financial support due to it being classed as HE then actually it isn't a much cheaper option.
It's exhausting, I slave away, and save money to pay for each years fees, add to that examination costs which are separate, course manuals, then ILEX registration fees. That's another thing, ILEX students are regulated in the same way as solicitors are by the Law Society, but it's by ILEX themselves. We have to adhere to the same codes of practice so it's not like it's easier, especially when the student becomes a Fellow and has the same autonomy as solicitors.
I think it's naive of you to think that this so called 'easy' route is going to close down universities or make the hoards of students trying to get on a law degree any less. It's not. I should have gone to university but at the time I was working full time in a law practice and didn't want to give that up to do a degree. I
Please, if you are going to make bold statements about plebs becoming professionals without degrees at least do your flipping homework and see how us plebs really have to jump through hoops to get there. All your statements do is make you look ignorant.
Many years ago you could qualify as a solicitor without a degree (not through ILEX). The first partner I worked for qualified that way. Took a number of years but probably no more than the combination of degree, LPC and training contract that is usual today.
I'm a solicitor and I wouldn't recommend it as a profession unless you are pretty sure you can get a training contract. The market is saturated with LPC course providers but there just aren't enough training contracts around even for those with impressive CVs. It seems to be down to contacts and luck, which has always been part of securing a contract but even more so now.
There is a lovely expression to describe majority of uni courses - "glamourised kindergarten for grown-ups". Unis do not give as much advantage nowdays on the job market as they did 50 years ago. You can judge that by the fact that there are more women going to unis than men. Top unis still work well as selective mechanisms, and small number of professional courses (such as medicine or engineering) still deliver professionals. However, the majority of courses (from business and management, marketing, personnel studies to classical civilisation) are just a sandbox for adults.
The main reason why I want to send my DD to uni is that she will have a great time being spoon-fed with intellectual entertainment, carefully measured to her interests and abilities. Obviously, a uni for her must be from the top: no entertainment whatsoever if you are not ready to work hard [enough to get to the top uni].
I did a free correspondence course as a degree and then professional qualifications as masters (it costed me £80x14 for exams and a little bit for second-hand textbooks on ebay). I was mortgage-free by 30. Now I am doing free online courses on Coursera for fun and considering starting to learn a 3rd foreign language. I feel over-educated [for my professional job] without actually spending a day in a full-time uni.
You can also always have become an accountant without a degree.
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