Opus Dei

[UsernameAlreadyInUse]

I went to a private Catholic primary school open day recently where the school priest is a member of Opus Dei. I'm a bit uneasy about this (probably read too many trashy novels). Can anyone shed any light on what influence this might have on the children?

My impressions, for what they're worth as a non-Catholic, are that the school seemed very heavy on Catholic practice and quite traditional e.g. confessional in school (and it wasn't named 'reconciliation" which is what I thought the sacrament was called these days). My husband's a fairly liberal Catholic and I'm a protestant with Quaker leanings. I don't want my children coming in home with lots of homophobic, anti-abortion, women belong in the home etc teachings. There was a poster in the school that said "Lent is when we think about how we have hurt Jesus" (!!!!). This seems like a lot of guilt to lay on a small child.

Am I overreacting and/or does this have anything to do with Opus Dei?

[TheEagle]

Hi username, I can only offer my own experience of Opus Dei and it may not be a popular one.

Opus Dei is a sect within Catholicism and it is quite right wing with strict views on subjects such as abortion and relationships.

From my experience with members of Opus Dei, it is a secretive organisation for the main part which never sat right with me. I have a number of friends whose family members joined Opus Dei and occasionally those family members ended up segregating themselves from their families.

I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school (in Ireland rather than the UK) and we were taught conservative values but there is a lot of positives about the Catholic religion as well.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with my child being exposed to some of the ideas of Opus Dei but I imagine that in a mainstream school the priest themselves wouldn't have a huge influence.

I'd suggest reading a little more about the organisation and maybe speaking with people who are/have been involved.

Hope that helps a bit and good luck.

[TheEagle]

Oh and fwiw, my (all girls') secondary school was conservative but absolutely didn't push a "women in the home" agenda. We were all encouraged to achieve as much as we could without a focus on getting married and having lots of babies!

However, several of the girls I know who attended Opus Dei - run secondary schools did have this agenda pushed on them. It's ok to pursue a career to a point but marriage and children should take priority. Most of those girls have very narrow views on homosexuality, abortion and women's rights.

[Fink]

What link does the priest have to the school? Is he on SLT or teaching at all? Or does he just provide pastoral care and sit on the governors? If the latter then I doubt he really has much influence, so I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other.

At primary school I would be surprised if they mentioned much if anything about sexual ethics. However, you need to be aware that the Catholic Church is anti-abortion and anti homosexual practice (how much this translates to homophobic treatment of gay people is much more varied). I'm neither defending nor criticising that (although I do have opinions on it, they're not what's at stake here), but it's a fact that a Catholic school will be expected to adhere to Catholic teachings on those matters, as on others. If you strongly disagree with them, then maybe a Catholic school isn't the best choice. OTOH, as I said, I would be very surprised at primary level if these things came up often, if at all.

In terms of women in the kitchen, that is not a teaching of the Church and not a view with which most Catholics in the UK would agree (whatever their liberal-conservative tendencies), and since Catholic school teachers don't even have to be Catholic (except the Head, Deputy Head, and Head of RE) and in the vast majority of cases are either non-Catholic or non-practising, I can't see how there's any danger that it would be promoted as an agenda. If it were something coming from the priest (it is possible that he holds such views, although it would strike me as unusual that it would be something he would spend much time talking about, particularly to young children), it almost certainly wouldn't be reiterated by the teaching staff. In a private school, you will tend to have a higher proportion of practising Catholic teachers, but they're nevertheless drawn from the general population (of teachers), so the chances of them being able to employ a team of extreme right-wing bigots, even if they wanted to, are quite slim.

As regards the confessional, the Lent poster etc., I have worked in Catholic schools of varying shades, and such things would be common though not universal, it seems unrelated to the Opus Dei matter.

What I would do, in your shoes, is read through something like the Catechism (you probably wouldn't need all of it - maybe just the bit on the 10 Commandments). It's available free online. Obviously there will be teachings you disagree with, otherwise you would be Catholic, but if there's stuff which makes you think 'this is horrendous, I can't stand the thought of my dcs being taught that', then maybe reconsider the Catholic school idea?

If it's an actual Opus Dei run school, or they have some more serious involvement with it, then I would be a bit more wary. Not that anything seriously cultish/masonic etc. would be going on, but just that they will be properly hardcore traditional Catholic and push the conservative moral teachings, which might not be what you're looking for. Opus Dei are quite strongly orientated around the 'traditional' family (they are 98% lay people), so in addition I would expect there to be serious expectations of parents of the school to get involved with things, which you might not be comfotable with.

[Carrie5608]

How did the Opus Dei come up? Did the priest announce it or did someone else tell you? If so how accurate is the information.

I find it strange that a member of a fairly secret organisation would be broadcasting his membership.

In terms of lent usually primary school kids are taught that you show love for Jesus when you show love for your friends examples of which would be not leaving them out in the playground, talking behind their backs etc and therefore you hurt Jesus when you do these things. Nowadays there is much less giving up sweets for lent and more going on being nice in the playground, helping out at home etc

All my kids went to catholic schools. None of them have been taught homophobia or that the womens place is in the home. Abortion would not be discussed at primary level.

[Fink]

I haven't found that Opus Dei people are particularly secretive about who's a member, just about what exactly goes on inside the 'club' so it wouldn't surprise me to find someone introduced as an Opus Dei priest.

However, most of my first answer was based on the idea that it would be an average Catholic primary with a priest in to say Mass once a week. If it's somewhere like Oliver House, for example, then it does not fall into this category. That is a full on Opus Dei school, which is a completely different idea (well, not COMPLETELY different, they are both Catholic, but there is a vast step up from average Catholic primary to Opus Dei school).

[TheEagle]

I should have said that at primary level there was never a pushing of a right wing Catholic agenda at all.

I also work in different Catholic primary schools and we teach Catholic faith in a gentler, more inclusive way than I would have learned it in the past.

The priest doesn't play a huge role in the primary school here although that may be different in a private Catholic primary school.

[UsernameAlreadyInUse]

Bingo! Yes, it was Oliver House. So they were upfront about the Opus Dei connection but I am still in the dark a bit about what that might actually mean on a practical level. I was hoping for the warm and nurturing type of Catholicism. If you have beans to spill, please do it here or by PM.

I have a diploma in Catholic theology so I like to think I am reasonably well-informed about the Catholic faith for a non-Catholic but movements within the Church (broadly defined) didn't get any coverage. The nuns who taught me didn't have much truck with traditionalist views. I did learn that there as a lot to admit in the fundamentals of the Catholic faith but I would be worried about little children bringing home gory anti-abortion leaflets.

[UsernameAlreadyInUse]

Admit? Admire.

[Vivacia]

I'm not sure why you are considering a catholic school, it sounds as though they are being very open about their philosophy.

[UsernameAlreadyInUse]

I agreed to bring up the children Catholic and we are not going to use state education. I'mGiven that, I'm investigating the options. But I posted precisely because I don't think that the school is very open about how exactly or how far the Opus Dei connection affects the daily life of the school or classroom. There's a lot of contradictory information on the web so I thougt I'd try here.

[Vivacia]

What's the difference between Opus Dei and Catholicism?

[TheEagle]

Opus Dei is a sect within Catholicism founded by Josémaria Escrivá.

It is secretive and very conservative. Members do not usually talk about their involvement with the movement.

So all Opus Dei members are Catholics but not all Catholics are Opus Dei members.

[Fink]

Right, so if we're talking about Oliver House then it's definitely more than an Opus Dei priest who pops in once a week or so. They are funded by Opus Dei and I suspect (although I don't know as a fact) that a substantial proportion of the staff are Opus Dei members.

I still don't think there'll be any issue with abortion; it just doesn't come up with primary aged children. I suppose, at a push, I could imagine a SPUC fundraising leaflet might come home in the bag (no accompanying lesson), you could check their website to see how graphic they are, but I would be quite surprised if they even went that far. Likewise, I think there's zero chance that there'll be any recruitment drive for Opus Dei amongst the children, even covertly.

What I would be more aware of is the general atmosphere, which will be:
a) conservative (e.g. it wouldn't surprise me if the older children got a chat about modest dressing) and
b) heavy on traditional Catholic practices (Confession, Mass - not the sort where the dc do a liturgical dance and sing about how Jesus loves flowers and bunny rabbits - stations of the cross, Rosary etc.) for children and parents.

Most of all, Opus Dei is concerned with 'everyday holiness'. There's a heavy emphasis on the family and living God's will within the family. Children should be obedient, fathers strong leaders and mothers nurturing. There's not much room for non-standard families. I would expect heavy pressure on parents to model appropriate behaviour, attend parents' workshops, generally be quite involved with the school, both the religious aspect and supporting children's learning (as their 'first educators).

Fwiw, 'raising the dc Catholic' doesn't necessarily mean a Catholic school. Most state school educated Catholics attend Catholic schools, but it's common if not the majority (certainly the vast majority outside of London, London is different) for privately educated Catholics to be in non-religious schools. If you want good Catholic private schools, the Benedictines do a great job.

In brief, I would consider it to be old school conservative Catholic rather than drawing dc into a cult, but it will be uncompromising in that ethos.

[Vivacia]

But there's no difference in beliefs, is my point. If you accept catholic beliefs, want your children taught these beliefs, what's the harm in sending them to this school?

[TheEagle]

It's not necessarily about a difference in beliefs, vivacia, but a difference in the way in which those beliefs are interpreted or lived out.

I teach in different Catholic primary schools. Some put a high emphasis on religion and would teach religion every day to children who regularly attend Mass.

In some schools children would still be nominally raised Catholic and would make Holy Communion etc. but would rarely if ever attend Mass. In those schools religion may not be at the forefront of teaching even though it's a Catholic school.

Because Opus Dei is also about the adoption of a particular lifestyle, as a PP has laid out, there may be elements which the OP is not comfortable with.

I am a Catholic, and will raise my children as Catholics, but I absolutely do not agree with some of the ideas, beliefs and practices of Opus Dei. I would not send my children to a school which was openly run by Opus Dei.

[Vivacia]

This might be what I'm getting - what ideas and beliefs do Opus Dei have that go against Catholicism?

[TheEagle]

It's not their beliefs that go against Catholicism per se, but rather their interpretation of Catholicism.

They are extremely right wing and conservative and, whilst some Catholics are those things as well, I believe Opus Dei takes things too far.

[Vivacia]

Right wing refers to political views. Would you say that it's their political views you disagree with rather than their religious beliefs?

If so, what are the politics of other catholics? I am not sure I accept that Catholics have a particular position/valence on the political spectrum.

[Vivacia]

Sorry, that last one should say Catholicism.

[TheEagle]

I'm not talking about political beliefs - there is a view that there are "right wing" Catholics i.e. Catholics who are extreme in their interpretation of the Catholic faith. It's a phrase which is used quite a lot here in Ireland and it's not a political phrase.

Like in all religions, there are some people who follow the religion in a "lighter" way (if that makes sense) and those who take a more hardline approach with little or no scope for accepting other views.

I'm not trying to talk about politics at all.

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

As a practising Catholic, I would run a mile from anything connected with Opus Dei. Priests linked to schools do come in quite a lot and quite often sit on the board of governors where they will wield power. It might be a disproportionate amount of time is spent on RE/attending Mass/saying endless decades of the Rosary to the detriment of chldrens' education - especially if it is a private school.

The Lenten sentence quoted by the OP is very negative - modern catholicisim has become much more positive about the way it presents Lent - the "hurting Jesus" bit reminds me of the style of teaching I received in primary school 50 years ago. My own kids did not get this, thankfully.

[Vivacia]

I think I'm getting there Eagle, you are referring to the "Christian Right"? I guess Opus Dei would argue that they are true Catholics, and others have just watered down the faith or cherry-picked beliefs?

[TheEagle]

Yes, that's what I'm talking about vivacia.

I'm not sure they'd be as explicit as that but they wouldn't have much time for people like me I'd say - people who are practising Catholics but do support divorce, married priests and gay marriage.

[Fink]

I think Vivacia, that you're on the right lines but it is still more nuanced than you paint.

For a start, Opus Dei wouldn't see themselves as the only true Catholics. Although the pp is right that they wouldn't have much truck with people who support divorce, gay marriage & co., they would think that any 'orthodox' Catholic is fine. They don't want everyone to join Opus Dei. They do think that everyone should be Catholic.

But, apart from that, even within the spectrum of people who accept all the teachings of the Church on every matter, there is still a conservative-liberal (right-left) spectrum on what matters you emphasise. E.g. a conservative might campaign against abortion, a liberal might campaign against the death penalty or torture. Both are legitimate expressions of Catholic teaching. A conservative might give money to missionary charities, a liberal might give money to aid agencies. This isn't so much about 'cherry picking' aka 'cafeteria Catholicism' as which aspects of it you emphasise - no one could actively uphold all of the teachings all of the time so you have to decide for yourself which ones are most important. I.e. it is perfectly possible to be a card carrying Catholic whom even Opus Dei could not fault in terms of dogma, doctrine etc., and still not get on with Opus Dei ...

[Vivacia]

I'm trying to think of a Thing whose values are so in line with mine that I would want my children to benefits from it, yet that I wouldn't want a strong brand of it because I wouldn't want it to have influence over my children.