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We Believe You: we're launching our rape awareness campaign today.(531 Posts)
Today, we're very proud to be launching a new campaign. It's called 'We Believe You', and it's inspired by the many MNers who've asked us to speak out about the prevalence of rape and sexual assault in women's lives.
While we're at it, we're going to try to explode, once and for all, some pernicious myths about rape - about who does it, what it is, and whom it can happen to. These myths mean that many victims are denied justice: our survey confirmed that most don't report their rape or sexual assault, for fear of being disbelieved.
So the message of our campaign is in the title - we believe you. We hope MNers will get behind it, and spread that message far and wide - on Facebook, and on Twitter, using the hashtag #webelieveyou. And don't forget to let us know what you think here on this thread.
We're also giving a shout-out to Rape Crisis, the End Violence Against Women coalition, and Barnardo's - all of whom are supporting our campaign. They all work hard on sexual violence issues - either by supporting those who've experienced it, or campaigning for better prevention strategies - so do see if you can help them out.
This campaign is being discussed on LBC NOW !
george, thats a terrible thing to happen to your sister, I have seen the legal system referred to as a "double rape", it must be even more traumatic, a not guilty verdict.
18 months is a disgusting timescale.
The rate once in court is around 58%, getting to court is a massive hurdle of its own, as govt cuts strike deep and only cases were there is strong chance of conviction actually get to court.
This is the first link I can find, but it is well documented.
You're a very brave woman, Mary. So glad you have come through your horrific experiences
I can't praise Rape Crisis highly enough. If anyone is affected by sexual violence (even if you don't think of it in that way), please try to call them. They will listen, they will believe you, they do understand.
Just adding my applause at getting this campaign off the ground. Well done, MNHQ!
So many horrible stories here . You should all be proud of being survivors of such trauma.
New Pathways another excellent service for victims of abuse.
Thank you for this campaign Mumsnet. I have a baby daughter and hope we will have changed our attitudes to rape by the time she is a teenager. x
I wouldn't report it if it happened to me. Whether we like it or not, reporting a rape to the police means the victim (and their family and friends) are on trial. The main chance the rapist has of walking free is for their barrister to undermine the victim and the other witnesses. Like it or not, this is what happens.
My sister had witnesses who saw her after the attack. They were all ridiculed in court. Why would people put themselves through that because of jealousy (as the defence team argued)? Why would they be ridiculed in open court and then have to live with it for the rest of their lives that if they had said X or done Y perhaps he would have been convicted. I really do think that actually he (and men like him) are actually encouraged by the low conviction rates.
I don't want to sound too much like I am attacking the police, by the way. They made mistakes in our experience, but they did believe my sister. The problem lies with society, with the perception of rape and women in general.
Please understand - rape is about power and control, not men getting carried away.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I think that's the key here Pacific - 'survivors'
We are aren't we? All of us here, posting are the ones who survived. The thing is, there are those who do not survive rape and/or abuse.
I can't even begin to imagine how the families and friends of those victims must feel. Then again, there of women who I have spoken to about rape and abuse who have said that they wish they'd died instead of having to live through the hell, memories, horror, blame, self loathing, the shame, the feeling of being damaged goods, the insecurities.........
When I left, I was scared to death that I'd bump into him all the time. I did once, I walked into him and almost vomited there and then.
He had the gall to ask after my DD. He asked how she was. Apparently, a friend told me that for years he had a picture of her (my DD) on his mantel piece, he told people that she was his DD and that he's 'lost her' when I left him.
My blood ran cold when I found that out.
The best thing I ever did was to open up and talk about it. Once I did, I found that I saw him as ugly and small. I found that the power he held over me was ebbing away.
I'd see him, not up close, I'd see him in his car and wonder what I ever saw in him.
But at the time, he had complete control over me. He'd groomed me for months before the first rape. He was the one to rape me first, his friend came later on.
By that time, I had become withdrawn, he'd cocooned me into his world, he held every part of me in his control. He promised every time that it was the last, that he was sorry, so so sorry.
It didn't stop. Not until I left.
yes, we are suvivors Mary - not victims!
I was raped by my then-boyfriend, and the following day, asked him why he'd done it. He never answered as such, but said he didn't hear me say no. Despite the bruises I left on him... He was so well liked by everyone around us, and so well respected, I didn't dare say anything to anyone. I was 17 FFS, who would believe a 17 year old girl over her 17 year old boyfriend (who happens to be captain of all the school teams/clubs/headboy/army cadet etc etc)?
And what 17 year old is strong enough to tell her parents that she has had sex even when some of it is non-consensual?
I spent a long time being terrified I'd bump into him, or seeing someone who looked like him and having a panic attack. Once I'd told a few people what had happened to me though (7 years later!) I started to feel much better about myself and much more like I would laugh in his pathetic face if I saw him again.
I just listened to the Jeremy Vine discussion on this campaign and was reduced to tears to hear other women describing why they didn't tell anyone.
And it brought it home to me why this campaign is so desperately needed.
Great campaign MNHQ.
So sorry to hear so many sad stories.
Thank you for this campaign MN. When I saw the title it brought a tear to my eye - during the aftermath of what happened to me I remember wanting just one person to look me in the eye and say 'I believe you'. It would have given me so much more strength.
Great campaign MN. Am totally behind it.
massive kudos to you for talking to the Indie about your experiences. That must have been hard for you.
It really does say so much for Mumsnet that you're paying attention to the people who post here and reflecting what you've heard in Mumsnet's campaigns.
Also, your ability to launch campaigns and generate large amounts of media coverage is incredibly impressive. And you don't even have to dress up in Spiderman outfits to do it.
I couldn't do the survey. I tried but I just couldn't finish it.
Feel a bit guilty now as my experience is nowhere near as bad as some of the others I have read or heard about.
I think it's a great campaign but I can understand why many victims don't report a rape or sexual assault.
Great news! You have my support, I will go and read the thread now and good luck.
Am I reading this wrong, or should it be without ? <sorry>
'We hope this campaign will succeed in showing just how many lives have been blighted by sexual violence. We hope it will explode the myth that most rapes are carried out by strangers, and that the testimony of women who have been raped by men they know should be viewed with suspicion. We hope it will show that there is no 'typical' rape survivor, and reassure those who have experienced rape that it's never your fault.'
Just wanted to say thank you for all the kind comments . We really wanted to do you all proud with this campaign - and of course couldn't have done it without you - so it really does mean a lot to know it means a lot to you (if that's not too confusing).
Thought you might also like to know that we've got the Crown Prosecution Service's Director, Keir Starmer, coming in for a live webchat at 0930 tomorrow morning, so pop over www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/1426525-Live-webchat-with-Keir-Starmer-Director-of-Public-Prosecutions-Tuesday-13-March-9-30-10-30am and do ask a question if you have one.
Fruit hope you are ok, I am sure you are not the only one who found the survey triggered a few really bad feelings
if I could "like" Nyac's post just now, I would
Well done, Katie, all the brave contributors and MN. Katie, was that you I heard speaking with such clarity about this on 5Live this am?
Piece of advice - don't read any of the comments under any article about this, unless you want to confirm to yourself why this campaign in necessary.
Oooh, Keir Starmer. I have lots of questions for him - will post later.
Thank you MN. This is a great campaign.
Thank you MNHQ - what a great campaign.
Getting people to talk about it and understand the myths is so important, because it may help girls/women protect themselves. I speak from experience in this too. I thought, that because I'd consented to sexual contact, it wasn't rape, even though I said no. I also, in my 17 year old naivety thought that because it wasn't rape, I couldn't try to stop him aned that if I did that would be "unfair" on him. It was only five years later when studying criminal law that I discovered that no means no whenever it gets said. I wish I'd been more aware of the myths so I'd have felt more empowered to try to stop it.
One question for you though, MNHQ, were respondants selected at random (e.g. in the manner of a yougov poll) or were respondants just those who chose to answer your questionnaire?
Are MNHQ keeping an eye on the facebook page, to deal with rape myths there too? As there's a post with them there currentlty.
Awesome - i can't believe this has finally happened!!!!
Well done MNHQ, all the feminist boarders and everyone who's supported it.
Crossing my fingers so hard for it changing things.
This is a fantastic campaign.
I was raped by a male "friend" when I was 16 & no-one would have ever believed me if I had told them. I did tell my so called best friend & her reply was "wish we all could be so lucky"!
I can't blog about this openly as my family know nothing of this but may do it as an anon guest blogger post.
Thank you for helping to help the victims.
Thanks to everyone who got this campaign up and running.
Well done Mn, I am so pleased you have taken on this campaign. I really hope this is a first important step to change things. For my beloved friend who has been through this, you are always in my heart xx
I am really pleased to see this campaign get going. I'm going to repost something I posted on Mme Lindor's thread last night, because it explains why I support the campaign:
"I never reported the years of sexual abuse that I suffered [between the ages of 9 and 14]. This was mainly because I was convinced that noone would believe me and that I would be labelled a trouble-maker and ostracised (and at school I already was for other reasons).
Looking back I realise that my conviction came from the attitudes to rape that I heard. My rapist (he was only a few of years older than me) told rape jokes all the time within his circle of friends within my hearing; his friends laughed and told other such jokes. In fact, I was pretty certain they all knew but didn't care. At least one lad used the abuse i suffered to harass and bully me whenever he could. I was made to feel intimidated and the source of humour and scorn."
The way I felt; the bullying I went through etc are a direct product of a society which does not think that rape is an important crime and that victims are in some why to blame for what happens to them. This is why I think the campaign is important, because if it helps only one person like my younger self it will have been worthwhile. (And I think it has the potential to help many many more).
So [flowers] and thanks to all involved.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
This is an excellent campaign and one I fully support.
Just wanted to add my post to the list of those supporting this, such a fantastic cause. Hope it makes a difference.
I am really glad to see this campaign I am a Mum and I also co-orodinate a not for profit project for people who have experienced sexual abuse and those that support them called into the light www.intothelight.org.uk
It has been really hard work over the years getting the attention and resources put into help people who have experienced sexual violence that they desperately need and deserve.
Brilliant stuff. The name of this fantastic campaign is perfect.
#didnotreport is also trending as well as #webelieveyou
Shocking stories but I'm pleased to see that the campaign is growing
'I believe you'.
All of you,and we are many.
As a survivor,I want to stand shoulder to shoulder, for us all, and for our daughters.
<stands shoulder to shoulder with countessbabycham>
It's been a tough day for me as it turns out, reading the comments following the article they used about my abuse...... I have to say that there are some very sick people in this world. Very sick.
I'm so very pleased to see those little voices shouting out loud on here today. I want to hold so many of those voices and tell them that it's over, does that make sense? I want to say 'look, you did it, you got out' even though I know that there are posters reading this thread and others and nodding in the very raw realisation that this is their life too.
Sorry, I'm not being patronising, I'm trying to get across that the sudden lifting, the sudden light and air that you feel once you say it out loud really does free you. It takes away the control they have, it takes away the power, the strength that they have. It's not always physical power. The mental abuse is sometimes worse. The two together is so very hard to let go, to move on from.
But once you are out, safe, gone from that situation, then the light dawns. The pain fades, the scares remain, physical or not but they fade too.
I wish that I had a time machine at times, to go back, to never have met him. To never have worked in that place, been in that bar, walked that path home.....
One day, one day it stops.
I'm off to enjoy some tv with my gorgeous husband now. My DS is fast alseep and my DD too. Tonight I am safe in my home, I am safe and I am loved. I know that I am loved because I can feel it.
I'll be back tomorrow. Keep posting please.
Keep supporting the campaign so that we/you/MN/ can keep fighting to stop these animals. Keep fighting the justice system that fails so many of us. Just Keep Fighting.
I think anything which raises awareness of rape and who does it is excellent. The statistics are distressing considering how often rape occurs. I sincerely hope this encourages more people (male and female) to come forward and hopefully the legal system will realise how devastating it is and act accordingly.
Then maybe more of us will identify it for what it is and report it.
I'm so grateful for the support I've had from MN in the last few years. Made me realise that yes it was rape and that I could do something about it.
So glad this is trending on Twitter.
So sorry,meant to say 'We believe you'.
Btw this campaign got a mention in the Daily Mail today, I believe. Was a positive article. (I think it was the Mail - I work in a newsagents' & read them all!)
Hey, I have been reading all of whats been going on with this discussion and I am glad that finally people are stepping up to help rape victims. I myself am a British citizen living in the USA, and when I got with my now separated husband was subject to rape at his hands. I admit, I should've said something, but I was scared and alone in a place that I didn't know. Its been two years, but despite that, I am trying to work past it.
Hi MN, could you take another look at your FB page please? There are a few posts on there that are perpetuating the very myths that MN is campaigning against. Thanks.
Yes the fb page is undermining the campaign.
Having just read the FB page, I dont think the debate can be stiffled, so best to let it stand and allow individuals to provide answers, I think the posters there are doing really well at non aggressively tackling the myths being perpetuated.
Well done Mumsnet. The Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Centre (RASASC) in Guildford, Surrey I know is delighted that you are taking such a public stand.
If we can all change the myths and stereotype ideas that everyone has, talk about it and make rape and sexual abuse completely unacceptable to any person, then the world will be a better place.
I know the Surrey RASASC answered +3,000 helpline callers last year and sees 50 people every week for face to face counselling. It is a huge problem and people prefer to ignor it. Check out www.rasasc-guildford.org
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I agree. Also makes it look like MN never bother with the FB page.
I agree with sgm re Mumsnet respOnding to comments - simply deleting them will lead to a lot of criticism though.
Well done for doing this.
I am an older Mnetter and was raped by my first husband. This was in the late 1980's when the law pretty much let a man rape his wife with no comeback. I can't remember when the law was changed. He is still regarded by all as a sucessful professional. Whereas I have struggled to trust men ever since.
am struggling with a rape of 13 years ago by a man I knew. i go through cycles of forgetting and burying, only for it to make up for lost time when it remerges. The ongoing impact from a 15 minute event is breath taking sometimes. it has taken m e this long to even tell someone and I feel ready and it would seem that this campaign to me is a harbinger of a light to swim for.
Many thanks to MN for doing this. For the women who are lost and looking for a way to peace
I know for many that this campaign will trigger feelings of fear and loathing that have long been buried. I'm struggling today if the truth be told. The FB page is upsetting me so much that I'm not going back to read it.
Last night was hard, I dreamt about my XP as I often do but last night was somehow different in the fact that we were married, we had children, we lived together and the rapes had never taken place.
I woke this morning shaking and scared, it took a few moments for me to remember where I was, who I was.
I wondered if others had the same? I wondered if there are women out there who also dream of a change of event. I know that when I was with my ex, I thought I could change him, love him enough so that he's no longer hurt me, rape me, punch me. I thought I'd be the one who would stop his pain.
I blamed myself for not loving him enough, not caring enough. I blamed myself for being weak and feeble. I didn't tell a soul and those who asked about my weight loss, were lied to. Those who asked why I was limping, were lied to.
After all, it was my fault. I wasn't good enough for him. He had money, a nice house, a great job with a huge blue chip company, a flash car, holidays abroad......
I know that it was all a web of lies and deceit. Like a spider with a web, waiting for the fly to land. He just completely took over my life and my own self worth. The power and control that he had over me was so intense.
I suppose that's why I still have days where I wait for him to knock on the door, and doing this campaign did make me wonder if he'd be able to track me down.
The thing is, I know that is he did ever find me, if he did ever come looking for me, he can not hurt me any more. He has no power over me. He no longer has control over me.
I hate him, he is an ugly, pathetic man. He's small and weak and has no right to be in my life. He will never be able to hurt me again. I know that the dreams will subside and they are getting further apart.
For each day I walk forward, he takes a step away from me.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
The other thing I found out once I'd left, is that XP used to 'brag' about it to his friends. He'd tell them all about his conquests, he was sleeping around as well as abusing me.
He got his XP pregnant when we were together and she kept the baby. He made me terminate our child saying that he'd kick it out of my if I didn't.
The initial article that I wrote for the Independent was pages long but they took the really important points and printed them, the full 'story' builds a much better picture as I'm sure a lot of you can relate to.
The fact that I knew my abuser. He didn't start off that way, no at all, far from it in fact.
Again, I can imagine that there are a lot of victims out there (men and women) who know the person who assaults them before the event even takes place and therefore, when that is the case, I think the fact that the abuser is known makes it harder for others to believe you/me/us.
i'm proud to be a mumsnetter at times like these, TBH i started to piece together my own history from reading many threads over the years here on MN that struck a chord and I've never posted about my own self even though i've come to realise that my first time, tricked into a bush just 13 by an 18 year old who wouldn't stop when i pleaded for him to was actually rape. simply because he knew it was, even if i didn't..
thankfully as a mother of girls i'm acutely aware now of the significance of this as it sent me hurtling along a path of submissively having sex with whoever wanted me to... which has had many profound effects on my life in the short and longterm and it's only through the collective wisdom and experience shared on MN that I have been able to admit to myself what has happened throughout my life.
i recently found a diary i wrote at the time of the first rape. i only mentioned that i'd sex, i was surprised after when i realised that's what it had been..my mum read my diary and teased me relentlessly for a long time about the guy, he told many people and of course it makes sense now years later why i was constantly pursued by lowlifes wanting to have sex with me..duh! at that age i had no idea he told them that's what i was there for. i also became hated by girls as i was a 'slag' so was even more easy to abuse
i think there is a typical story here, i wasn't savagely abused but i was used for sex systematically at a young age when i was unaware, by people who were old enough to know what they were doing and enjoyed it
i even cheated on my lovely husband as i was still in a mindset of automatically having sex with people who tried to
i didn't understand my own actions/ passivity more clearly
now at nearly 40 i have come to an understanding of the fuller picture and at leat feel armed with knowledge to protect my girls from similar abusive situations. thankyou MN collectively a group of wise sisters/ aunts/ mums
bloody well done all of you involved in this. LOVE the myths page and am fbing it for all i am worth.
sinister, well done also to you and the other women who are speaking up about what has happened to them and educating their sons and daughters to behave differently.
I really like the way you have done the 'we believe you' words underneath the Mumsnet logo.
I was thinking about this today - perhaps mumsnetters could boycott solicitors who have specialist solicitors dedicated to getting these scumbags off. I'm going look around for a firm that doesn't.
all are innocent in the eyes of the law, the scumbags are allowed representation too and as we have cockroaches we also have solicitors who handle the low lifes. sad but true.
I occasionally deal with peopel who have survived all kinds of abusive relationships and it is staggering how pernicious sexual violance can be years and years after the attack happened. I have absoutely no desire to downplay how awful and dangerous physical abuse in general is, but there is an added dimension of visciousness when the violence is directed sexually .
Please, MNHQ, can you add something 'official' to the FB page?
It's also entirely possible to be wrongly prosecuted for rape where the identity of the rapist is unknown - especially when forensics cock up the DNA.
Cases where one's not quite sure have to be allowed to go to trial to thrash it out. At which point there's the man in the dock is innocent and the rapist is still out there.
having said all that, we have a disgusting level of actual succesful prosecution for rape. i believe it gets worse every year. is it the process? is it a mind set? PacificDogwood that is the terrible terrible legacy of rape. it just keeps giving, it destroys utterly in so many ways that are difficult to put a shape on. it never stops hurting. a solicitor can walk away, a rapist can walk away, but a victim well, they are in there for ever. I speak from personal experience and it is with me like a scar
SerialKipper, the situation you're describing is of course possible, but not hugely likely or common, non? Whereas a low reporting/prosecuting/conviction rate for sexual assault/rape is disgustingly real.
People get occasionally falsely accused of/prosecuted for theft/fraud/murder/whatever and that fact is not used as an excuse to not accuse/prosecute suspected thieves/fraudsters/murders for their crimes.
Ah, but when murder trials go wrong whatever, there are calls for shake ups and reforms, it is constantly under review, but from where I am sitting shite all is being done to improve the prosecution outcomes for rape. why is it still so bad? is
or even why is the report of rape so low? Wee have no confidence in the system and I for one would not put myself in its hands. and then some of the tarifs handed down to rapists are an insult
Fantastic stuff, Mumsnet. Thanks and support to everyone involved with this campaign.
I've just posted on another thread about this, but I'm feeling a bit let down at the moment; after finally having reported my attacker he's just been told by the police that he'll probably be spoken to at some point in a month or so because of how far away he is from the police dealing with the matter/how busy he is.
I was initially told that he'd be picked up (with no warning) and have his PC taken away. Feels like he's got all this time to come up with a cover story/get rid of any evidence.
Eh? You've completely misunderstood me, PacificDogwood.
I utterly agree that people accused of rape should go to trial, and that the possibility they've been wrongly identified should not be a barrier to this.
But because wrong identification can occur in certain types of cases, it's wrong to do as justalittleinsane suggests and attack solicitors who defend people accused of rape. (It's probably also wrong for ethical reasons, but the practical one sprang out.)
Oh. Sorry, SerialKipper, I did indeed misread your meaning. My apologies.
<<slinks away in mortification>>
Silver - that is absolutely despicable. Can you complain? How awful for you xx
Can mumsnet bring this campaign to the Leveson enquiry as the majority of these myths are regularly disseminated by the media which also reports false accusations in a wholely skewed fashion, thereby perpetuating these myths and building on them. If the media was forced to report sexist violence, of which rape and DV forms a part, giving total figures for rape, unreported rape and sexist violence in the home, this would give a far more accurate representation and begin to eradicate the myth that women must first and foremost clear their gender of being automatically the liar in a case where they have to prosecute a man. If the figures for both sides of the issue had to be reported as part of any media coverage, it would bust the underlying and most pernicious aspect of sexist violence coverage, that of the fact that women lie more than men around sexist violence.
Mary hang on in there, love x
So sorry for everyone's experiences
serial and lola, the solicitor that sprang to mind was one I stumbled across, and I cant remebmer what firm, who was boasting on his website about how many cases he had managed to get evidence suppressed in.
I cannot tell you how much it incenses me that the rapist has the whole of the long drawn out process to prepare his defense, with the best that money can buy and the ability to question everything about the poor victim and their witnesses while the victim, can expect - and I quote "to be lucky if the Prosecuting Barrister sees the evidence more than half an hour before entering court".
That is not an even playing field.
also tbh, I'd prefer to simply take my business elsewhere, at the end of the day, solicitors and barristers dont care if their clients are guilty, they only care about the best defense they can provide.
Thank you MN xxxxxx
And to all on here who have provided an emotional lifeline
There was a thread about Leveson and media portrayals of violence against women, Representations of Violence against women in the media, if anyone's interested.
Women's and transexual rights organisations gave evidence in the morning session, Tuesday 24 January, from about 104 mins in, and their testimony lasts about 80 mins.
Another supporter here. Very timely. Thank you and well done for organising it.
I would say the main question is how do we move this discussion from being a 'women's issue' to being an issue for the whole of society? It affects everyone - not just because of the 10% of victims who are male, but because it distorts the whole of society.
And the sad fact is, for as long as this is seen as a 'women's issue', only of interest to '
man hating feminists' it will never be taken seriously.
Yes I think it is an issue for society. I am concerned at how common it is to ply young ladies with alcohol at parties and clubs so that they are really very vulnerable. Said young ladies and their 'friends' seem to accept it is culturally the norm to drink to a level where they cannot look after themselves, especially when they are young. Indeed sometimes I wonder whether the whole thing is self perpetuating- alcohol leads to rape and then the poor young things drink so they can face the rape aka known as 'pulling a guy'. Not to mention drinking to cope with the sex games at parties that are supposed to be culturally acceptable but are actually very demeaning. The whole thing begins at an early age thats also my worry. I was shocked when my 17 year old daughter was plyed with drink at her friends 18th by that friends mother My daughter was left totally vulnerable and luckily someone spotted that a stranger was leading her away from the 'posh hotel' and so she was alright. In fact it was a wake up call for her and she has been very careful about her drinking ever since.
I also think the talks at uni are fantastic. My DD had a fantastic talk with her freshers group in her first week on campus rape and what does and doesn't constitute consent which she found really reassuring. It helped the guys too, to know what the boundaries are. The campus also had a 'running away' room where students could stay the night if they found their college room was being a bit invaded
Thank you for this campaign
It happens to you in your own home by someone who who says they love you
It happens at any age (I was 40)
Half asleep in your chair in front of the Christmas tree you get punched three times with no warning
You crawl off to bed and lie there frozen with fear and shock
It happens in a place where you've gone to feel safe and you feel guilty because you think you 'allowed' it
You don't react for three days and when you tell him to leave, he doesn't, because he doesn't acknowledge that it happened
And you tell no one for 10 years, but when you do, you realise how it has overshadowed your entire life for all that time, how it's isolated you and continues to do so
Because he still won't leave
Brilliant campaign. So sorry for you Sparrow wishing you all strength.
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