Music Junior Programs

[MissScotland]

Hi lovely mamas,

I'm trying to look into and learn about the different junior music programs with a view for my DD to start next year. She's in year 5, grade 6 on the piano (will be taken in March), grade 3 violin, grade 5 theory (distinction). She's super musical and talented with a passion for composition too.

We are looking at the primary academy and RAM, Junior Guildhall and RCMJD. At the moment she has two piano lessons a week, one at home and one at school and a weekly theory/composition lesson. We think she'll get quite a lot out of a junior program, socialising with kids with the same interest and playing in different groups.

I was wondering if you can shed some light on a preferred program. At the moment I'm leaning towards RAM simply because it's the closest, but we are will to drive further for a good reason.

Also, is it common to apply to more than one program in the process? How hard is it to get in?

Another question that might sound silly but I'll give it a go anyway - is year 6 a good year to start? With 11+ exams and music scholarship exams and auditions for secondary schools I wouldn't want to push her too much. She's only 9...

I'd love to hear your thoughts, tips and insight, ideally from first hand experience :-)

Thanks in advance!

[Moominmammacat]

You can use the same material for all the auditions! Y6 fine, probably less stressy than Y7. Both of mine did RAM and got into Guildhall and RCM too, worth applying to more than one. It's useful for the musicianship and chamber music classes for a pianist who might otherwise be lonely. One of mine loved it, one loathed and one was indifferent!

[doesanybodyhaveamap]

DD1 absolutely loved junior Guildhall- lovely vibe there. We know people at RCM and RAM too and they are all fabulous, but each us it's own feel so worth going to open days etc if you can.

DD1 started in Y7 but with hindsight I wish we'd done it in Y6 as she did struggle with secondary school transition and starting JD at the same time (and this is a child who had sailed through life until then!).

With DD2 we are going for a mid-year start at RWCMD, she will be starting either after Feb half term or Easter depending how things pan out with Covid. She's currently in Y6 and we didn't want to repeat the double whammy in September. Cardiff have been super supportive about the timing.

Good luck!

[teachcolate]

Hi I have two DCs at RAM Primary. I also recommend to audition other JDs because piano and violin are highly competitive. Violin grade 3 is not the standard to help her to get in RAM. Piano grade 6 at Year5 is not strong as well. DC joined RAM at Year 6 and there were only two places for pianists at that time.

[Moominmammacat]

But you never know ... they look for flair as well as grades. Worth a shot.

[MissScotland]

Thank you everyone!

[minisnowballs]

It all sounds terribly impressive to me @missscotland - but then there do seem to be a LOT of very impressive violinists and pianists out there and not very many spaces... It might also be worth looking at Trinity (though it's not central) and the London CYM (which is also classed as a centre for advanced training and has guildhall links). Both my dds are at CYM -one would probably make it into another junior department if she wanted it enough (and believed in doing more than 15 minutes practice every other day!) and the other certainly wouldn't. Both are very happy with the ensemble work they get, and I understand the composition training is very good too (also they're more likely to let your DD use her violin as well as piano). Worth a look, anyhow, along with the rest.

[Londonmummy66]

Piano department at Junior Guildhall is absolutely amazing - DC1 was there and had a very busy and well structured day (compulsory keyboard workshop, group sightreading class and piano duets as well as musicianship and second study etc). They genuinely do select on potential and have a distinct slant to pupils who play with musical sensitivity rather than churning out the notes of a flashy piece. Grade 6 at age 9 would be acceptable so long as the performance is musical rather than mechanical.

[MissScotland]

Thank you so much for your comments. Her teachers and us feel like she's super gifted musically and has a good shot.
@Londonmummy66 your input is much appreciated!

[doesanybodyhaveamap]

I second that about guildhall- they are more open to potential and musicality than some of the others where you do usually have to be super advanced to even get through the door... (I personally don't think that means they have lower standards either as I know of post G8 at 11 kids that have been turned down by GH).

[doesanybodyhaveamap]

@MissScotland , just a thought, does your daughters teacher have connections at any of the JD's or have experience of coaching other kids through the entry process? If not it might be worth trying to get a couple of consultations with teachers at the colleges you are interested in. At the very least you will get an invaluable steer on what's expected at that particular college and any specifics your DD needs to focus on ahead of auditions. And if your lucky, you'll find a champion!!

[MissScotland]

Thanks @doesanybodyhaveamap
Her teachers are from RCM and RAM but not with the JD.

[doesanybodyhaveamap]

Ah well then they will know exactly what's required I'm sure 😊

[LittleVenetian]

Does anybody have advice on how to choose between the different programmes? I can see that the Primary Academy is more separated from the older children and appears not to have an orchestra. But is it all much of a muchness? I have been leaning towards Primary Academy but have been quite impressed by Junior Guildhall.

[MissScotland]

Hi @LittleVenetian,
Was your DC accepted to all 3 and you're trying to choose?
If not yet I suggest applying to all first as entrance is competitive. Once you know where they can go you can make a decision.
We are still unsure (and don't have final decisions from all 3 yet). Guildhall is a bit far for us and since DD does composition too, we have a slight lean towards RCM.

[LittleVenetian]

So far we have had offers from RAM(PA) and Jr Guildhall so yes, we are trying to choose. We do not know anybody who has been to any of the Jr Depts. We have also applied to RCM. If you had asked me last week I would have said I preferred RAM but I was v impressed by the 2nd round interview at Guildhall - they seemed really switched on. But that is just an impression and it is just so hard to get a full picture. Travel is not an issue for any of the 3.

[teachocolate]

Hi @LittleVenetian we are in the same boat. DD is accepted by Guildhall and RAM Junior and waiting for RCM.

She is at the last year of RAM Primary. The standards of all schools are similar as they all intake many children with wide range of abilities. We were advised to send DD to a specialist school if we want higher standard peers.

We chose RAM Primary a few years ago for her because it is nearer from us and safer for younger children. They don’t need to cross road to move to lessons and the Primary director remembers all children’s names and caring very well. She is really impressive and supportive. It’s also reasonable price.

However, you should remember it is separated from Junior RAM. No internal competition, no opportunity for masterclass. In addition, children have to audition again for Junior RAM as well as outside candidates and no guarantee for places.

We are leaning towards RCM only slightly but won’t make any decision until all results are out.

[MissScotland]

We have Guildhall's interview on Tuesday. So they send out results without finishing second rounds for everyone?
Also accepted to RAM here and waiting to hear from RCM.

[doesanybodyhaveamap]

They are all slightly different in atmosphere and ethos but equally all very brilliant institutions. I would look carefully at the programme of study for your instrument(s). I have a very wise friend who repeatedly reminds me 'it's not necessarily where you are, but who you are with'

Of course, they all have very accomplished and wonderful teachers, but if you can get any clarity on who is likely to be teaching your child and maybe a consultation that might help.

We went with junior guildhall for a particular teacher. It was the perfect fit for DD.

[WordsandMusic2020]

@LittleVenetian @teachocolate We're in the same position (inc still waiting on RCM) but we're almost certainly going to take Guildhall. Their comms have been fantastic and I think that says a lot about an institution when they seem to really care about the students auditioning. Our impression is that it's the most nurturing of the three. We'd already decided we wouldn't take RAM (unless it was our only offer!) as it's not ideal to have to re-audition all over again at 12, when it's arguably harder to get in. My sense from everyone I've spoken to is that in terms of the musical education, there's basically nothing between them - they're all fantastic institutions and our DCs are lucky to be going to any of them!

[LittleVenetian]

That's so interesting WordsandMusic2020.
I really agree with you about Guildhall - I was so impressed by the second round interview and my DC was too. We are still leaning towards RAM though I share your concerns about re-auditioning.
I do not have anyone to speak to so it is very reassuring to hear that in terms of general musical educaiton, there's basically nothing between them.

[Ohtobeasausagedog]

My DC absolutely loves RAM (PA) - it’s so nice and special to be with a group of similarly aged kids and it’s also nice to be able to stay for year 7 and be top of the tree at that time, when in school life you are back to being bottom rung. A poster further up said there wasn’t an orchestra at PA but there is - although it’s a string one. It’s a really cozy and nurturing environment, and all the teachers are absolutely brilliant and so energetic and obviously keen to inspire and motivate and love working with these kids.

[WordsandMusic2020]

@LittleVenetian In the absence of going to visit, it's so hard to decide, isn't it? What you really want is to be able to get a feel for the places, and you can't do that online. The other thing we're less keen on at RAM is not being able to do a consultation lesson. For us, the relationship with the teacher is so key we don't want to do it blind. Whereas at Guildhall we've been offered consultation lessons with two possible teachers that they think are a good fit and then we can decide. But it might be that you have a teacher in mind at RAM and have requested them already. I know lots of people do. We're not au fait with individual teachers' reputations to be able to do that!

[LittleVenetian]

@WordsandMusic2020 - it really is hard to decide! I am almost hoping that RCM do not make DC an offer just to keep things simple.
You sound like you are far better informed than I am and everything you say is very helpful. It sounds like at the very least we should speak to Guildhall about potential teachers. We do not have any teachers in mind, though. DC's present teacher knows somebody who teaches his instrument, though, so maybe we will try to get some advice through her. I should add, you are all welcome to PM me if you have any thoughts or discussion topics you would rather not share online.

[Ashard20]

If it makes a difference, Junior Guildhall have their own higher certificate which they take in Y11 and consists of harmony, theory, composition, aural training and musical appreciation. They have a weekly lesson (MA) for this purpose. Obviously a bit in the future, but there are occasional assignments and it resembles very closely the grade 8 theory syllabus, but, I would say, much broader.

[Londonmummy66]

For all of you deciding I just wanted to jump back in and say that DC had an absolute ball at Junior Guildhall (piano dept) and that she did quite a bit of chamber work with strings as well and really liked the people she was interacting with. There was very much an atmosphere of respecting you for what you can do regardless of age and, certainly in piano, they were very supportive of each other. Although not there anymore as she went specialist baording for 6th form, she still misses it a lot and has a solid group of friends there she has kept in touch with.

She also had some MH issues and the pastoral support was absolutely superb - actually helped me draft letters to her school etc to sort out the problems there.