MNHQ here: should we support a Citizens Assembly as a way of breaking a Brexit deadlock?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We've been asked whether Mumsnet would support the idea of a Citizens Assembly to try to bridge the divide within the UK electorate over what should happen next with Brexit, and address what's looking like a deadlock in Parliament .

Current polling seems to suggest no majority in the country at large for any one Brexit outcome, from May's deal to a second referendum to no deal. (Here are YouGov's figures on May's deal from a few days ago and here's another set of YouGov figures appearing to show that no current proposal has majority support). Inasmuch as anyone knows anything, the conventional wisdom seems to be that there's also no majority in Parliament for any of the possible ways forward.

Citizen's Assemblies aim to be neutral forums for participative decision-making. (You can see the Wikipedia definition here.)

The Republic of Ireland set up a Citizens Assembly as part of the process that resulted in the repeal of the 8th Amendment to the Irish constitution, contributing to the recent referendum decision to change Ireland's abortion laws.

For Brexit, the proposal is that an assembly of 500 citizens (from a longlist of 10,000 people drawn from the electoral register) would be randomly selected by a polling organisation to be demographically representative of the UK electorate. The Electoral Commission would facilitate the process, and a non-voting Chairperson would call experts to give evidence from a variety of perspectives. The aim is that the Assembly would take place within the space of a week towards the end of 2018 or the beginning of 2019, and that its recommendations would be passed to Parliament for a vote.

A previous Citizens Assembly on Brexit was held in 2017: you can see the summary report of its recommendations here.

We'd be interested to know whether you think this is something MN should support - please let us know what you think (and if you're an expert on constitutional conventions please feel free to contribute )

Thanks
MNHQ

I'm in favour. Politicians have made such a mess of this, it's time to hand it over to the grown-ups.

This is just about whether MNHQ support the assembly, not about one or other position re Brexit?

I for one would regard it as being a bit hypocritical for MN to be engaged in this now seeing as it has made a fair job of keeping the whole Brexit subject 'hidden' in the bowels of 'other stuff' for 3 years.
I have asked several times for the existence of the 'Brexit' threads to be made present on the home page as a separate 'thread title' for many months so think this is opportunism.
Had the sterling work of some of the more learned posters (happy to exclude myself) been more prominent 3 or more years ago then there is a chance the UK would not be in the position it is now.

@dippledorus

This is just about whether MNHQ support the assembly, not about one or other position re Brexit?

Yep that's right.

Yes, please.

Thanks Rowan. Then, for me, it depends on how the panel is constructed - "demographically representative" in what sense/senses?

Sounds the most sensible way to sort this message out, give the choices back to the people!!

Who asked you, mumsnet?

My knee jerk response is that citizens as long as they are randomly drawn can hardly make a worse mess of it than political parties.The latter have to many internal divisions about the EU, they also have a too short term focus on getting elected and put party first interests.

So a citizens' panel ( if properly briefed) may be able to make more long term beneficial decisions. It would also put the country first hopefully.

On the other hand I feel that the current Tory party got us into this mess and they shouldn't be let off the hook really.

The problem is that the country is hopelessly divided and the citizens' panel would be too. Views shift as well, so a 2018 citizens' panel could conclude differently to the 2017 one and differently to a 2019 one.

Overall right now we are too divided. So:

Plan A: Revoke Article 50, undertake a detailed survey of priority concerns.Work with a citizen's panel if needed.Address austerity, address the NHS. Be seen to overhaul the non EU immigration system if that is still seen as a justified majority concern. Maintain the EU status quo for now. Send decent politicians to the EU parliament (not Farage and co).Work engagingly within the EU to lead from the front with soft alliances and diplomacy to address any concerns.Build allegiances. Meanwhile amend our voting system to replace FPTP. Change the layout of the H of C so it is less adversarial .Move away from the two party system to something more collegiate. Amend our referendum rules to make clear what advisory means and what binding means, require higher turnouts and a higher percentage requirements for certain matters.
Plan B: If the Tories won't do that and they probably won't-then yes hand it over to a citizen's panel.

Sounds a good idea and cheaper than a referendum or general election.

Sounds a good idea and cheaper than a referendum its findings might recommend a referendum, surely?
But as to the question asked, lots of questions as to how it would work but in principle I'd say it'd be good for mumsnet to support it.

I think the question has already been superseded by today's ECJ judgement.

I don't think so. The people may be demographically representative but they won't all have the same ability to debate and make their voices heard. We could end up with a very unrepresentative decision as a result.

Also, would they be drawn from across the UK or only from London?

I think it would have been helpful to set this up on 30th June 2016 but now is a bit pointless. Positions are entrenched amongst the electorate and experts coming to give evidence can be dismissed as "unicorns and cake" or "project fear" depending on your point of view.

If it is actually about the intricacies of world trade e.g (Norway/Turkey/Canada/WTO) this is complicated even for experts and more importantly, noone knows actually what is available - it is all very well recommending a particular route but what if that is blocked off - e.g. Argentina and New Zealand continuing to block access to the WTO schedules on the same terms which mean that WTO is not actually an option.

@FestiveNut

Also, would they be drawn from across the UK or only from London?

Across the UK and the proposal is for the assembly to be held outside London

@bananacake2134

Who asked you, mumsnet?

Stella Creasy MP contacted us about this - it seems to be supported by a few different MPs and organisations - here's an article on the proposal from Open Democracy

I think its a dreadful idea. Who is to say the tiny group chosen would be representative?

What about "lobbyists"? How would they be dealt with?

Will members of the panel be paid travel expenses? As in, will it be paid up front or do they have to pay and claim it back? As the latter will work against low income people from outlying areas.

Yes, I think it's a good idea an MNHQ should get behind it.

If I was picked, for example, unless my travel was paid up front, I couldn't be part of it. (Low income, live an expensive travel away) So I would be concerned that the panel would inadvertently indirectly discriminate against people like me.

Crazy and anti democratic.

a bunch of "citizens" chosen at random, take an irreversible decision on the future of the country.... what if they get it wrong? would they be held accountable?

I'm sorry but we ve a representative and accountable parliamentary system, politicians cannot just opt out from their responsibilities.

If Brexit truly cannot be delivered, then Parliament must revoke and the nation should think again, we can always leave the EU at a future date but we can never rejoin (in any reasonable time frame)

I'd trust Stella Creasy to be backing something that's got legs. I'll try and get to read the article later but that's now a confirmed yes from me.
And to the poster who said the ECJ judgement renders this irrelevant, I think you've misunderstood the ECJ judgement which changes nothing at all about the UK decision or decision making process, but simply confirms that one of many possibilities is open to us should we choose to take it, if we can find a process that will bring us to a place where it's a good route through.