Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?(353 Posts)
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
I am really clueless about what exactly you want.
Does nobody have anything to say on this?
I know almost all Leavers don't want FOM (despite BJ saying on the 24th June that for Leave voters this wasn't about immigration) but what do you want to replace it with?
It's extremely telling that no one can comment on this.
Soon one will come on to tell us that they're bored of being asked to justify themselves
OK, I'll bite:
Working visas for skill shortage areas, no in-work benefits and minimum tax contributions (to cover NHS and schools). Visas open equally to anyone in the world.
No visas for anyone else, but no working and payment for use of services such as NHS. Would check for criminal convictions as does the USA.
What about people coming on holiday, visiting family, students, those wanting to retire? Any maximum stay for people?
This isn't a goady thread btw. I just want to understand exactly what people do want and see if there is any consensus on this.
For what it's worth, I want to keep FOM and am happy as it is.
How does that work reciprocally carol?
What about people who want to move to say Spain to retire and can more than afford to sustain themselves?
What should happen to them?
Sorry I see you answered about holidays.
No visas for anyone else
I thought you meant nobody else would be allowed to visit.
Minimum tax contributions? As in paying higher taxes than nationals?
Does "no visas for anyone else" mean no-one else has to get a visa or that no-one else will be able to get a visa?
What about foreign students? Family reconciliation? Spouses?
What about those of us who have lived here for years, married Brits and have children?
Does this mean people cannot bring their families here and settle as if the UK don't need their skills anymore they are out?
Which movement rights should UK citizens have in Europe? That's my question for leavers...
Thank you for coming onto this thread Carol I would really like to hear from other Leavers and find out what they actually DO want, I think we all know what they don't want. Looks like nobody (apart from you) is going to tell me.
Sorry, my 'no visas for anyone else' meant no-one else needs visas. If they can support themselves with no unpaid access to services then they can stay as long as they want.
UK to EU/rest of the world should be reciprocal - ie need a working visa, otherwise free to travel/visit/retire as long as they pay their way.
I make no difference between EU or rest of world people, all welcome as long as they pay their way or have a skill needed in the UK.
Minimum tax contributions means they are net contributors to the UK state, or at least not net recipients.
For those here prior to a date (after the vote, relaxed as to exactly when) would have grandfathered rights to remain on the terms they came into the UK with, along with children (born before or after the date).
I voted leave. Id be very happy if we retained FOM. Personally I do not see immigration as an issue in itself, more contributing to the wider problem of a growing population and not enough funding in the infrastructure needed to support that, such as the NHS and schools.
However immigration was not one of the reasons I voted leave. The vast majority of people I know who voted to leave didnt do so because of immigration. Which may explain why you are not getting many replies
According to the British Election Study and many surveys, a dislike of immigration (and a view that the numbers are too high) is the one thing that most Leave voters had in common. Perhaps Leave voters on Mumsnet are a different demographic?
Based on comments by Leave voters in this section I'd say MN has exactly that demographic. The majority of those who are still around say they voted for immigration reasons which is why it's interesting none of them have commented on here.
When you say skilled people we need to fill shortages would be given working visas, would that included shortages such as farm labours, unqualified care workers etc? These sort of jobs were no particular training or skills are needed but we find hard to fill?
I'm interested how leavers feel regarding immigration and securing new trade deals e.g. With India and China. If those countries demand FoM then will leavers be happy with these new trade deals (if they can be secured)? Won't we effectively end up swapping FoM in Europe with FoM in the rest of the world?
I can't envisage that all that many Chinese would want to come. The Indian sub continent is a different matter, because many already have some family ties here.
Good point fakename about the unskilled care workers. So far most of what we have seen is talk about concessions being made to relatively wealthy immigrants.
Marmite Lover, I have been thinking the same thing, concessions for FOM could be asked for as part of trade deals, we could lose out unless concessions are made.
Does aanyone other than the EU insist on FOM as part of trade deals?
FOM works provided there is some balance. It has got into problems because more people are coming to the uk from Europe than the other way round. I would like FOM to continue in some form, but this would need to be looked at.
I feel that migrants should not be entitled to in work benefits until they have been here two years. I doubt that such a ruling would affect most EU migrants who aren't entitled to benefits of any kind.
I want all Europeans have entered the uk legally to have th right to remain regardless of how badly the European treats British people in Europe. I hope that our European partners will choose to treat British people fairly.
I feel that tourists visiting Britain should pay an NHS levy to act as health insurance or evidence of comprehensive insurance. This would be more economical than hospitals chasing up patients for money. The recieprocal health agreement with other European countries is not fair as our NHS provides far more than other countries.
"Does aanyone other than the EU insist on FOM as part of trade deals?"
Most countries like Canada, US, Australia or New Zealand do not want British people turning up in their countries unless they have a skill.
Ok I am going to bite.
A friend, single mum, four children, has just accepted a care job. 16hrs a week, during school hours.
Without this job she will lose her home when the benefits cap comes in. We live in a deprived area, very high unemeployment.
She is being paid £5 an hour.
The job was advertised at £7.20, her wage slip says 7.20 but she is paid in cash at £5.
When she questioned this she was told she was welcome to fuck off.
If she quits she wont recieve any benefits for months.
If she complains, she can not prove it and no one is willing to complain as they darent lose their jobs. A woman she works with explained they didnt complain as its more than they would get in Poland anyway.
The company gets away with this because there is so many people desperate for work.
Is this the fault of the EU?
Of course not.
But we told people to vote remain so they could protect their rights, which was fucking stupid as they have no rights.
If you asked my friend why immigration was a problem she would say its because theres so many people desperate for work they all get treated awfully becuase they are so easily replaceable.
The schools are crowded, GP appointments are like gold dust and walk in centres? In this town? No chance.
Of course this isnt the EUs fault. It isnt solely due to immigration. But they were offered a choice, stay and immigration will continue, it will get worse.
If we leave and stop FOM maybe there might be a chance of employers needing to treat workers better. Maybe the GPs wont be as busy.
Had we been given a third option, of investment in public services to ensure population increase didnt not affect services, maybe leave wouldnt have won. But that was never an option.
This is not a one off, I know hundreds of people in similar situations to my friend.
They do not give a shit about visas for tourists or rights for British pensioners in Spain.
What is it they actually want?
Something to change.
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