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To think that Martina Navratilova should NOT lose her job at the BBC and that the BBC is biased?

(275 Posts)
TeamNavratilova Mon 18-Feb-19 23:00:54

On Sunday, Martina Navratilova had an article published in the Sunday Times, giving her views on the inclusion of transwomen (biological males who identify as being women) in women’s sport:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3x?shareToken=45bc9997e063aaf79646a7f12a7363a6

The BBC subsequently decided to have a discussion item on this on 5 Live and invited Dr Nicola Williams from Fair Play for Women - fairplayforwomen.com - to speak on Martina’s side of the argument along with Rachel McKinnon (a male-bodied cyclist who identifies as a woman and now holds a cycling world title in women’s cycling).

Rachel McKinnon refused to appear on the show if Dr Williams was on so the BBC’s response was to uninvite Dr Williams and instead interview Rachel McKinnon along with another trans sportsperson who agreed with Rachel. The other side of the argument (along with all facts about the physical differences between male and female bodies which Dr Williams could have provided) was not covered and both interviewees were asked (on the BBC, by a BBC presenter) whether the BBC should fire Martina to which they both replied yes: twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1097417280084951040 McKinnon has continued to argue for this online.

AIBU to think that Martina should not lose her commentating job at the BBC for expressing her (considered, researched) views and that the BBC has behaved in a biased and unethical way, firstly, by only presenting one side of an argument on a discussion show and, secondly, by using the opportunity to put forward the idea that Martina should be sacked?

Traveler001 Mon 18-Feb-19 23:03:23

Yanbu at all.

mooncuplanding Mon 18-Feb-19 23:05:47

If they fire her they will peak trans the whole country

Stressedout10 Mon 18-Feb-19 23:06:03

Yanbu this sort of biased reporting is on the up and is very scary

sackrifice Mon 18-Feb-19 23:08:50

The Streisand effect in full motion.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-19 23:10:31

I don't think the bbc would survive sacking Martina

It is on it's knees already

BaruFisher Mon 18-Feb-19 23:11:06

YANBU.

Even if Fair Play for Women had been allowed on Stephen Nolan is a terribly one sided presenter who seeks conflict and makes situations worse- he is infamous for it in Northern Ireland. The BBC is supposed to be balanced. No sign of it in here.

blackteasplease Mon 18-Feb-19 23:12:20

Absolutely she should not lose her job! Appalling idea.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed Mon 18-Feb-19 23:14:42

Male voice is more important than a females

Same old same old

Ffs just as we think we are moving forward we are slapped back down again

RomanticFatigue Mon 18-Feb-19 23:23:39

I hope this will bring this into the open arena. Martina is a very well respected athlete and if she does get sacked there are going to be a lot of people who had no idea about this waking up.

megletthesecond Mon 18-Feb-19 23:26:15

Yanbu.

TanteRose Mon 18-Feb-19 23:26:36

YANBU that's appalling shock

Team Martina flowers

Redshoeblueshoe Mon 18-Feb-19 23:27:15

The BBC are a bloody joke.
YANBU

Galvantula Mon 18-Feb-19 23:28:41

Yanbu at all, it's bloody ridiculous but not surprising. sad

Lizzie48 Mon 18-Feb-19 23:29:05

I agree, @AnyFucker the BBC wouldn't survive if they sacked her, she's such an icon. But that doesn't mean they won't do it.

blackteasplease Mon 18-Feb-19 23:29:11

Let's hope she has the support of gay rights groups. Being, you know, gay.

AornisHades Mon 18-Feb-19 23:31:07

YANBU.

Coyoacan Mon 18-Feb-19 23:40:39

It's blatantly obvious that male bodies have a big advantage over female bodies in so many sports, of course Rachel McKinnon couldn't have dealt with a proper scientific argument.

TaimaandRanyasBestFriend Mon 18-Feb-19 23:41:30

I am so glad I no longer hand over money to that biased greedy dinosaur of a cesspit of nepotism and institutional sexism racism and abuse that is the BBC. I hope it goes under soon and every single one of those jumped up poncey cunts loses their jobs.

Lizzie48 Mon 18-Feb-19 23:48:20

You're right, @blackteasplease she came out very early on, too. I remember that her sexuality was already common knowledge when I was growing up. She's always been fearless about telling the truth as she sees it.

Tillygetsit Mon 18-Feb-19 23:54:02

Taima I have worked for the BBC and your analysis is spot on.

Doubletrouble99 Tue 19-Feb-19 00:01:22

That's dreadful, you go Martina, I completely agree with you.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 19-Feb-19 00:06:34

The BBC would be batshit if they sack Martina for stating biological facts,
using her experience as a tennis No 1, to say why transwomen cannot compete fairly against women.

Mediocre men are taking prizes from the top women
while women are being censored and punished for speaking out about this.

I watched Martina in the 1980s
She was a tennis player of stunning talent, staying World No 1 for years.

I also remember the 1973 tennis match in which a 55-year old male former tennis star Bobbie Riggs easily beat the then number 1 woman player Margaret Court, aged 29, by 6-2, 6-1
Because ... male body

The BBC were totally wrong to censor Martina
and she was absolutely right to write what she did:

"^Simply reducing hormone levels^ - the prescription most sports have adopted -^ does not solve the problem.^

A man builds up muscle and bone density, as well as a greater number of oxygen-carrying red blood cells, from childhood. Training increases the discrepancy.
Indeed, if a male were to change gender in such a way as to eliminate any accumulated advantage, he would have to begin hormone treatment before puberty. For me, that is unthinkable.

Hundreds of athletes who have changed gender by declaration and limited hormone treatment have already achieved honours as women that were beyond their capabilities as men,
^especially in sports in which power rather than skill is paramount^"

Cheby Tue 19-Feb-19 00:08:30

YANBU. The fact that trans women have an unfair advantage in female sport is obvious to anyone with the ability to use their eyes.

McKinnon is a cheating scumbag.

nancy75 Tue 19-Feb-19 00:12:32

As long as the men get their own way nothing else matters. Not good enough to be a champion Male sports person? Never mind pretend you’re a woman & take that title, the little women will know their place & accept it. It’s bloody disgusting

IHeartKingThistle Tue 19-Feb-19 00:12:37

I still can't quite believe this happened today.

IHeartKingThistle Tue 19-Feb-19 00:13:09

I mean, it happened, but FUCK.

donquixotedelamancha Tue 19-Feb-19 00:18:18

If they fire her they will peak trans the whole country

They won't fire openly her over this issue, but they may quietly sideline and then drop her.

I generally think the allegations of bias against the BBC (on many subjects) are wildly exaggerated; but in this case the interview was very poor. Rachel McKinnon was interviewed without any challenge- despite the fact that she has harassed Navratilova for weeks.

The interviewer started from the presumption that Navratilova is transphobic (despite years of support for trans rights and friendship with transwomen) and then asked twice whether she should be sacked. I'd be pissed off if a colleague was soliciting my sacking.

What I find most irritating is the total refusal to actually look at the argument Navratilova was making. If someone of her stature and expertise can't discuss whether women should have the right to their own sports, then who can?

Peregrina Tue 19-Feb-19 00:34:17

I was really pleased to see Martina speaking out - at last I thought, a respected sportswoman being allowed to state the truth. How wrong I was.

Those of you who are a bit older, do you remember all those huge Russian and E European field athletes, who were no doubt drugged up to the eyeballs, but were pawns of the regimes? This wasn't fair, so how is a man 'identifying' as a woman fair? Will we see women who 'identify' as men being easily admitted to male bastions e.g. some golf clubs still. Somehow, I don't think so.

GrimDamnFanjo Tue 19-Feb-19 00:49:26

She's a fucking legend. The first out lesbian I was ever aware of. So pleased she's not been cowed.

ErrolTheDragon Tue 19-Feb-19 01:09:19

They should keep Navratilova and give less airtime to bullying cheats, and never again have a discussion about women's sports with all males.hmm

Judashascomeintosomemoney Tue 19-Feb-19 01:20:34

If they fire her they will peak trans the whole country
Maybe, but if the ‘whole country’ just do a collective eye roll and carry on as normal then the BBC won’t give a flying. I’m currently deciding what I can get elsewhere so I don’t have to buy a licence anymore. Once I’ve worked it out, and it will happen, I’ll stop paying. You should all do that too. There must be so many people doing this anyway, for myriad reasons, that the BBC are moronic for giving us yet another reason to bury them.

Judashascomeintosomemoney Tue 19-Feb-19 01:23:16

Oh, and my reasoning is actually nothing to do with Martina and everything to do with the prick they gave airtime to earlier today on Jeremy Vine regarding the Castor Semenya debate. I can’t even......

NotBadConsidering Tue 19-Feb-19 02:10:55

They won't fire openly her over this issue, but they may quietly sideline and then drop her.

There is no way Martina would allow this to happen. She is a proper legend and champion who will be strong enough to stand her ground. If she feels she’s being “moved on” I reckon she will walk, and tell everyone why. She’s amazing. So a big fuck you to McKinnon, the BBC and the Guardian for denigrating her while she stands up for women and girls in sport.

ErrolTheDragon Tue 19-Feb-19 02:15:32

If there are signs that the BBC is punishing Navratilova for defending women's sports, I'd hope the newspapers, especially The Times, would not let it be a 'quiet sidelining'.

girraffeduck Tue 19-Feb-19 03:00:45

Team Martina!

QwertyLou Tue 19-Feb-19 03:51:27

I understand that transgender women have to go through an arduous process of reducing their testosterone levels. Which must be difficult, and require commitment.

But how can suppressed testosterone levels also reverse the muscular, skeletal, red blood and lung capacity advantages of a woman who went through puberty as an assigned-male over other women?

Martina Navratilova said she was happy to call anyone a woman who identifies as one.

Those now attacking her are the “phobic” ones.. not her.

KC225 Tue 19-Feb-19 04:05:09

I hate the fact that this topic cannot even be discussed without the clamours to yell transphobic first. Martina is hugely respected athlete and a has a valid point to make. This issue really is the emperor's new clothes.

NotBadConsidering Tue 19-Feb-19 04:10:22

But how can suppressed testosterone levels also reverse the muscular, skeletal, red blood and lung capacity advantages of a woman who went through puberty as an assigned-male over other women?

You don’t need “assigned” in there; no one is assigned a sex at birth. But to answer your question, it can’t, which is why the focus on testosterone levels is wrong IMO.

MissLanesAmericanCousin Tue 19-Feb-19 04:29:08

The more I read and hear about the trans issue, the more I think it's all about men

Mummyoflittledragon Tue 19-Feb-19 04:32:42

YADNBU
I urge everyone on this thread to complain about the media biais shown by the bbc and obvious silencing of fair play for women on the bbc website. This is very poor journalism and needs to be called out (in this way) to fight against it. I have already submitted an online complaint. www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

Notbad
Yes, I was going to say the same thing.

HotpotLawyer Tue 19-Feb-19 04:47:41

Listen to the interview here:
fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Steve-Nolan-McK.m4a

Please do listen and complain.

It was on BBC5Live on 17th Feb. ( you need these details to complain)

Why did the BBC allow one guest to veto another guest already invited?

Why did the interviewer take such a partisan line? (Taking on board that Martina was transphobic, without any question or debate, and introducing the idea to the guests that she should be sacked)

Inviting a guest and then ‘no platforming’ them at the insistence of another guest is not the respect for free speech that we expect from a supposedly intellectually respectable institution like the BBC.

Complain to the BBC about the Stephen Nolan interview, state your support for Martina!

QwertyLou Tue 19-Feb-19 04:52:46

Notbad personally I find the “assigned at birth” nomenclature quite awkward.. it’s not like the midwife tossed a coin and then put an F or M on the form!

But to me the physiological science is key, and getting into bun fights over words just plays into the hands of those wanting to silence that discussion.

Plus, I don’t want to get banned for using the wrong terminology

Coyoacan Tue 19-Feb-19 05:01:17

Oh, and my reasoning is actually nothing to do with Martina and everything to do with the prick they gave airtime to earlier today on Jeremy Vine regarding the Castor Semenya debate. I can’t even......

Too true. He was just a random man with absolutely no relevant expertise to argue any side of the argument. And his argument is that women could beat men if only we tried harder. not that I've ever tried at all

NotBadConsidering Tue 19-Feb-19 06:26:59

QwertyLou

That’s understandable, but you won’t get banned for saying “born male” or anything like that, non-specifically. You would only be on potentially dodgy ground if you said it about a trans person specifically, and less so on AIBU, more so on feminism chat, because FWR is probably held to a different standard and TRAs monitor it looking for posts to report and screenshot.

It’s not/shouldn’t bannable to say males have different sporting physiology to females, as much as certain people would like to deny science. So stick to your guns!

MinnieMountain Tue 19-Feb-19 06:35:42

Complaint made.

The IAAF are starting a hearing about testosterone levels in female athletes. That will be an interesting one.

Rhubarbisevil Tue 19-Feb-19 06:37:16

Is Points of View still going? (Showing my age blush and lack of BBC watching blush)?

Radio 4 has a programme which discusses other programmes. Presenters grill the producers of other programmes. We need to lobby the BBC to get this interview discussed by another programme.

Igneococcus Tue 19-Feb-19 06:38:37

Times has an article today about Nic Williams being uninvited:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-cut-guest-from-debate-over-trans-row-l68jmmcr2?shareToken=5c68b30eb14e57fd7bfe00643c8ea08c

CallingDannyBoy Tue 19-Feb-19 06:48:43

Great BBC messes that up - the story that keeps on giving for the Times and keeping the issue at the forefront of the news. Not sure that is what RMcK wanted.

CallMeSirShotsFired Tue 19-Feb-19 06:50:49

I don't have the figures to hand, but even the "reduced" testosterone levels for tw are markedly higher than the levels women produce naturally.

Why are they not in the ranges of actual born women?

Not even getting into the fact that this is all an artifice and down to synthetic drugs, which is a mockery of the whole clean sports thing.

Ghanagirl Tue 19-Feb-19 06:55:57

*@TeamNavratilova
Martina’s article is well researched and intelligently presented.
Rachel Mckinon comes across as a horrible bully as for comparing FairPlay with the KKK it’s insulting and typical of the vitriol from many trans activists

borntobequiet Tue 19-Feb-19 07:01:36

Points of View still exists
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/24BYtfKJbd0Hdv3B6LhKcdd/air-your-views
This was the most extraordinary blunder by the BBC. Sometimes I wonder if there’s some reverse psychology going on but then remember they are far too woke and stupid for that.
McKinnon comparing an organisation called (so mildly!) Fair Play For Women to the KKK or the flat earth society is just...batshit.

HotpotLawyer Tue 19-Feb-19 07:04:18

Ha! Weasel words from the BBC on their shameful ‘no platforming’ of Fair Play For Women.

McKinnon compared Fair Play For Women with the KKK! There is so much wrong with that. What a self absorbed idiot.

The Times coverage of this is so much better than the Guardian.

AnyOldPrion Tue 19-Feb-19 07:06:25

R McKinnon said:

”Would you expect a black person to actively ‘debate’ a KKK member on civil rights? That’s analogous to what you’re asking me.”

grin

Transperbole par excellence!

Public notice: The BBCs perspective has gone missing. If anyone sees it, please contact A. Woman, who wishes to reinstate it as soon as it is found.

PalmTree101 Tue 19-Feb-19 07:10:45

Complained

Shameful that the BBC ‘no platform’ a respected sports women who has been nothing but open and courageous, whilst in the interests of (false) balance love to platform anti-climate change ‘scientists’ with equal prominence in debates. Fucktards.

SaturdayNext Tue 19-Feb-19 07:11:27

YABU to base a thread on something the BBC itself hasn't said is going to happen.

SchadenfreudePersonified Tue 19-Feb-19 07:15:58

* As long as the men get their own way nothing else matters. Not good enough to be a champion Male sports person? Never mind pretend you’re a woman & take that title, the little women will know their place & accept it. It’s bloody disgusting*

As Nancy says - Inadequate males, unable to succeed as athletes against other men, insist on competing against physically smaller, weaker women in sports where muscle mass and lower centre of gravity etc give them an advantage in order to make themselves feel big and powerful.

Wankers!

HotpotLawyer Tue 19-Feb-19 07:20:53

“YABU to base a thread on something the BBC itself hasn't said is going to happen.”

The BBC invited two guests on to a show who were anti the views of Martina N. They specifically dis- invited a commentator with a different perspective. Bias.

The BBC interviewer then asked both guests ( they didn’t bring it up) whether Martina should be sacked. Replying to that = the discussion point of this thread.

So the OP is NBU.

Of course Martina should not be sacked. She expressed her opinion on an issue , as she has a right to do, and huge numbers of people have said they agree with her.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost Tue 19-Feb-19 07:23:59

“YABU to base a thread on something the BBC itself hasn't said is going to happen.”

It has happened....

Charley50 Tue 19-Feb-19 07:25:20

I can't believe they put a trans woman in Martina's place. How is that unbiased? And to even suggest sacking her as an option? Bloody hell, this has really gone too far now.

Charley50 Tue 19-Feb-19 07:26:17

Just saw the link to complain. Will do this.

SaturdayNext Tue 19-Feb-19 07:29:34

Since Martina Navratilova hasn't been sacked, no, it hasn't happened.

Springwalk Tue 19-Feb-19 07:29:56

Outrageous again. The bbc wouldn’t dare sack we surely

Charley50 Tue 19-Feb-19 07:29:59

I think SaturdayNext was being sarcastic.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost Tue 19-Feb-19 07:31:17

Since Martina Navratilova hasn't been sacked, no, it hasn't happened.

Did you read the OP?

Charley50 Tue 19-Feb-19 07:31:35

Sorry, not Martina, Dr Williams.

Horsemenoftheaclopalypse Tue 19-Feb-19 07:33:04

Bloody outrageous

I have written my first ever compliant to the Beeb.

I’d urge others who agree to follow suit if you don’t speak up this shit will only continue

CaptainKirksSpookyghost Tue 19-Feb-19 07:35:19

OffCOM might be better, complaining to the BBC seems a bit pointless.

bellinisurge Tue 19-Feb-19 07:35:23

Sacking a superhero for having a reasonable opinion. Nice.

Birdsgottafly Tue 19-Feb-19 07:36:51

We are watching the demise of Women's participation in Sports.

We we be written out of history, as we once was.

The embracing of this shows how in important Women's Rights are to the World.

LizzieSiddal Tue 19-Feb-19 07:37:47

Well they had a real go at Jenni Murray when she had the audacity to write in the Times that trans women were trans women rather than women. She got a formal warning iirc and there was a petition to get her sacked.

The BBC is run by mostly men who are so woke, it’s a wonder they manage to get out of bed in the morning without suffering a trauma.

AlaskanOilBaron Tue 19-Feb-19 07:39:17

....the death knell of the BBC, perhaps?

Team Martina.

The BBC must go.

IamThereforeIdontIdentify Tue 19-Feb-19 07:39:42

You only have to listen to the silence from Jenni Murray to know how the BBC works.

Navratilova will no doubt be sidelined. In fact, I hope she takes evidence, has discussions with Sky Sports, gets a great deal then quits, publishing all the BBCs "wokeness".

RebootYourEngine Tue 19-Feb-19 07:40:05

This is ridiculous.

I will listen to the interview and put in an informed complaint.

If things like this continue I fear there will be a huge backlash against transgender people which will not end well.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale Tue 19-Feb-19 07:42:40

Team Martina.

McKinnon is a cheating narcissistic scumbag.

AuntieCJ Tue 19-Feb-19 07:51:14

Team Martina here as well.

Inadequate males, unable to succeed as athletes against other men, insist on competing against physically smaller, weaker women in sports where muscle mass and lower centre of gravity etc give them an advantage in order to make themselves feel big and powerful.

Brilliantly put.

HotpotLawyer Tue 19-Feb-19 07:52:23

“If things like this continue I fear there will be a huge backlash against transgender people which will not end well.”

Good point.
And one which many individual Trans people seem to hold. But they too are silenced by the vitriol and threats by the Trans Rights Activists.

SlipperyLizard Tue 19-Feb-19 07:55:33

I’ve complained to the BBC, and am planning to complain to the Guardian over its complete misrepresentation of reaction of the original article (basically saying Martina has been criticised on social media, completely ignoring the fact that the overwhelming reaction was support).

Women’s sport will simply cease to exist if people with male bodies are allowed to compete. It is not just about testosterone levels, it is male puberty and the muscle, strength and height advantages that brings.

BarbarianMum Tue 19-Feb-19 08:03:49

Women wanting a say in women's sport? Tush OP, you'll be demanding the vote and equal pay next.

On a serious note though, women are fortunately not a minority. We cannot be written out of sport, nor silenced, unless we allow ourselves to be.

averylongtimeago Tue 19-Feb-19 08:14:11

I used to listen to Radio 4, particularly the news. In the evening it would be BBC at 10 and/or news night. You could trust them for unbiased and balanced reporting.
Politicians were grilled, awkward questions asked and answers demanded.

Now? I don't trust them at all. I don't bother with their biased reporting.

This is just another nail in their coffin.

RebootYourEngine Tue 19-Feb-19 08:23:02

I have listened to the show and read the Times article and complained.

I don't think the radio presenter had even read the article. It was so one sided it was a joke. Nothing was mentioned about FairPlay for Women being uninvited. It was just an unnecessary attack on Martina Navratilova.

TidyDancer Tue 19-Feb-19 08:43:58

The BBC has seized on this because it allows them to be all righteous and woke and if anyone dares question their take on it, the likes of McKinnon will help them out and scream 'transphobes' as loud as possible. It's gold. Women are being slowly erased from sport.

I will be complaining too. Team Martina.

MilletSentToForceIt Tue 19-Feb-19 08:44:47

I put in a complaint yesterday. I asked for specifics in a reply.
Is allowing a guest to ‘no platform’ someone who’s view is opposite of theirs, against BBC Policy? If so what action has been taken to ensure this does not occur again on BBC networks?
How can having two Transwomen and a man discussing this not be biased?

The awful man on Jeremy Vine show is a Sociology Professor from Aston University, who constantly referred to a study suggesting women would be able to compete with men if they only trained harder and believed in themselves more. He was so awful, I wrote his name down somewhere .......Ellis Cashmore, he doesn’t believe that sport should be kept binary, because the world is no longer binary.
It was on after 1.00 yesterday. The only slightly good side is that even the ‘stunning and brave’ JV seemed shocked by the Professors suggestion that all sport should be non binary!

CallipygianFancier Tue 19-Feb-19 08:56:47

It's so utterly ridiculous. I'm supportive of trans rights, know people who are trans (both MtF and FtM), and generally am very much in the camp of people being free to be who they are.

But expecting women to physically compete with someone who's had the advantages of a male physiology to develop their body is nonsense.

There are some very, very good female athletes out there - but that doesn't change the fact that, for example, the kind of bench press numbers that put a man in the "intermediate" performance banding would represent an extremely high level for a woman of the same bodyweight. If someone is trans, irrespective of their current hormone profile etc now, if they've had a decade of benefiting from that beforehand, it's not fair to put them up against women who've trained without the assistance of drugs.

I'm not one to get too riled up about "fairness" in many cases, as life often isn't fair. But sport very much is meant to be, and that's why we have gradings by sex, weight, experience etc.

It's not transphobic to say that women who were previously men have an unfair advantage in most aspects of physical performance, and it's unfair to expect non-trans women to compete with them. As far as I can see, that's what Martina Navratilova's position is, and I think it is a perfectly reasonable one.

bellinisurge Tue 19-Feb-19 09:00:07

Are they planning to dump Linekar as a prominent Remainer?
Or are they more scared of kippers than they are of women?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer Tue 19-Feb-19 09:02:43

#TeamMartina

Fully behind her, and I'll make sure i buy the times as well today

LizzieSiddal Tue 19-Feb-19 09:04:19

Now? I don't trust them at all. I don't bother with their biased reporting.

Same here. I’ve started to watch Chanel 4 news at 7pm and I feel much more informed.

And very good point avoid Lineker and Brexit. Although he’s a man so will be slower to say what the heck he likes unlike Jenni and women in general.

LizzieSiddal Tue 19-Feb-19 09:04:35

*about not avoid

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer Tue 19-Feb-19 09:08:14

The awful man on Jeremy Vine show is a Sociology Professor from Aston University, who constantly referred to a study suggesting women would be able to compete with men if they only trained harder and believed in themselves more

I know this country seems to have a bit of a 'thing' about experts

But why the fuck would you ask a professor of sociology about this? Surely you'd ask a professor of biology or PE or someone who actually knows about sports

CallingDannyBoy Tue 19-Feb-19 09:11:26

Can we get Team Martina -shirts?

NicoAndTheNiners Tue 19-Feb-19 09:12:33

I would really like to stop paying my licence as am sick of the BBC. But I do watch itv so guess I can't stop paying.

NicoAndTheNiners Tue 19-Feb-19 09:13:25

Wish it was a £10 a month subscription service as it would be so much easier to opt out.

2019StandingforWomen Tue 19-Feb-19 09:17:55

Team Martina T Shirts would be great.

And this is an absolute disgrace.

Martina is so balanced and fair - she went away and researched the topic and then she came back and said the truth.

For this the woke media are trying to vilify this.

But the public are not on side with all this - all the comments I have seen on the Guardian's biased article were in support of Martina.

Also a good piece here by Helen Saxby

medium.com/*@helensaxby1*/martina-and-the-level-playing-field-1055fae87137

As an aside I saw last night that in the Canadian Winter Games, they will not even ask the biological sex of the competitor. So any male without any intervention whatsoever will be able to claim to be a woman and enter the women's races.

RiverTam Tue 19-Feb-19 09:20:18

#TeamMartina
#TeamNic
#TeamFPFW
#TeamWomenAreAdultHumanFemales

2019StandingforWomen Tue 19-Feb-19 09:20:30

Here is the article about the Canadian Winter Games:

www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canada-winter-games-implements-new-gender-inclusion-policy-for-2019/

“Because athletes aren’t asked to provide their gender — only which gender they’ll be competing as — Patterson doesn’t know how many athletes the new policy will benefit.”

They forgot a word: they don’t know how many MALE athletes this will benefit.

Teateaandmoretea Tue 19-Feb-19 09:22:22

Its just what my father would call 'stating the bleeding obvious'. Its fairly staggering that it is a contentious point at all.

I don't think Joe Public are on board with mem competing in women's sport at all. When it all started the DM comments let alone the guardian were unanimous.

Lumene Tue 19-Feb-19 09:22:48

YANBU

It is a free society. Everyone should be able to speak their truth.

2019StandingforWomen Tue 19-Feb-19 09:23:47

www.wsj.com/articles/martina-navratilovas-girl-power-11550519654

The Wall Street Journal has covered this - UK feminists are leading the world in challenging this issue.

Boyskeepswinging Tue 19-Feb-19 09:31:22

But why the fuck would you ask a professor of sociology about this? Surely you'd ask a professor of biology or PE or someone who actually knows about sports
Maybe the BBC couldn't find a biology/sports academic who disagreed with Martina because, well, what she is saying is correct?
#TeamMartina

2019StandingforWomen Tue 19-Feb-19 09:34:11

I would think that anyone who knows anything about sports or biology would agree with Martina TBH.

So yes, you may well have to look to some nonentity who wants to make a name for himself by talking rubbish before you can get anyone to defend this.

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