To ask NRP to increase CMS payment?

[StarlaPriest]

Hi everyone,

My ex and i have been separated coming up 8 years now. He's always made token payments for our 3 children, and when he got a better job 3ish years increased his payments to £200.00 a month. I received a letter from the CMS after a review of our case and they stated he should have been paying a fair bit more than twice that much going by his income and i could apply for arrears if i wanted. I chose not to, because i didn't want to rock the boat with my ex, preferring him to have a relationship with his kids despite my struggles. He very begrudgingly raised the amount a little bit but nowhere near the amount he should be paying. He's since then taken on a different shift pattern and sees the kids around once a month for one night, and has them for a weekend approx every 6 weeks. He says that these factors where he provides things for them his end should be taken into account and that he doesnt owe me what they are saying.

This year i have received another letter saying that his income is higher than last year and the amount he should pay has been raised again, however he keeps insisting that he cannot afford to pay any more. I have asked him to re-read the letter, and consider things from my point of view and get back to me. He's responded that he would be unable to pay his rent and get to work if he paid me the amount stated, which according to the income detailed in the letter is about half a weeks wage.

He lives with his partner, they both work and have no children to take care of their end.

I don't have much money of my own, my partner and i are building up our own business and we have one child together. I feel my partner puts so much into raising my older three when their own dad puts in the bare minimum and it is unfair.

I've given my ex one more opportunity to look at things again and stated that i wish he would look at it realistically as i don't wish to involve the cms any further. They would take whatever he is due to pay and the possibly the arrears from not paying the full amount for the past few years on top of the collection fees they now charge. I've no desire to bankrupt my ex so i've tried so hard to be fair, i really want to maintain a good relationship with him for the kids sake but i feel something has to give here.

Does anyone know what sort of effect cms payments have on the paying parent? Would it really leave them out of pocket? I know that they calculate the amount before tax deducted so i've always accepted less from him to account for this, but is this fair on me and the kids? Would i be being unreasonable to just let the CMS have at it?

Thank you if you've read this far x

[StarlaPriest]

I should add that i still don't expect the full amount the CMS has calculated though it would be very welcome, i just think as he's earning more he could pay a bit more. He would still keep the majority of the extra he's now earning. I just think an extra £50 or so out of the 100s more he's earning isn't too much to ask for. AIBU?

[TakeMeToKernow]

Hi OP. I’m the GF of an NRP, and UNLESS your income is more than your Ex’s, I would say go for it and get the CMS to collect the full amount (less their costs) going forwards. I’m not sure how you aren’t already more resentful towards your ex? Will the additional payments put him into some hardship/will the DCs lose out on anything?

It feels a bit U to backdate it - if that happened, perhaps make sure all funds go into savings for the DCs use when they’re 18?

[TakeMeToKernow]

Oh sorry, I’ve just re-Read that you’re unsure what effect it will have... you mentioned £50 - is that per week? Do you know what your ex will be left with after CMS payments? How would it affect you if you lost or gained £50 a week?

[Penfold007]

I'd go down the CMS route. CMS rates are the very minimum the NRP should be paying and for three children will represent approximately 19% of his gross income.

[NerNerNerNerBATMAN]

I don't know why you're so hesitant to do this. It's not like he's contributing in any other way really is he. Agree re PP about back pay, but going forward I'd claim the full amount going forward.

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

There Is no way CMS have calculated that he should be paying 50% of his income! I think it’s something like 25% for 3 children. He’s bullshitting you. Don’t even ask him again, just go back to CMS and tell them to deduct straight from his earnings.

[IamXXHearMeRoar]

The CMS calculations are pitiful in real money percentage terms and the absolute base minimum legally required payment. All NRPs can meet this payment easily in the same way they can pay pension and NI etc, really it is a joke number.

Stop negotiating and hand it in full to the CMS to deal with, this is money for your dc, you owe it to them to get it, all of it including back dated payments.

Any parent who lets money affect contact or relationship with dc is not worth having in their lives anyway so don't let that worry you. Stop being manipulated by bullshit, any backlash direct him back to CMS.

I am absolutely certain you would not stop feeding and clothing your children were the shoe on the other foot would you?

[IamXXHearMeRoar]

If it helps get to a mirror and practise shoulder shrug "I am just leaving it to the CMS to save any confusion, they told me this is how it works", also "take it up with the CMS, I am just leaving it to them from now on".

Rinse and repeat.

[StarlaPriest]

Hi everyone. Thank you for all of your responses.

Basically the £50 i mentioned would be per month, not a week. I just feel if he is earning considerably more then some of that should benefit the kids.

At the moment they have no savings at all and i can't manage any, i don't even give them pocket money. I was hoping he'd offer to increase the payments even if not to the full amount so i could put some of it into savings for them as i'm really starting to panic about their future being the same as mine.

As for his provisions for them when they are at his, its laughable frankly. They have nothing there. They have to pack bags of clothes, take their toothbrushes. He doesn't take them out etc etc.I'm forever taking flak from people that he's bs*ing me and he should be contributing a lot more for them. I've always just maintained i'll put up with whatever if it means they get to see him. I don't want bad feelings between him and myself to affect their relationship with him but i do feel as though i'm constantly being taken for a ride. I almost didn't take anything extra from him last year after the CMS letter arrived until he broke down his outgoings for me in an attempt to make me feel sorry for him and it transpired that he pays out more per month for his fancy car than he does for his three children.

I can't even afford to learn to drive lol, never mind get a car, any car! Anyway, i digress.

I've given him one further opportunity to offer something of his own accord. The thought of going down the CMS route for some reason makes me feel awful as i've always had it drummed into me that they take everything they can from dads and leave them with next to nothing.

[StarlaPriest]

PS TakemetoKernow My income is considerably less than his, i forgot to mention that in my post x

[Allthebestnamesareused]

I am afraid I would just tell him that you are going through the CMS from now on. It is money your kids are entitled to! Think what you could be doing for them that you can't do now. Even if its just putting a little away for them for driving lessons, uni etc

[StarlaPriest]

There were a lot of questions in some of the posts, i'm sorry i've missed some out. The reason i asked about the effects on NRP is because i can only see what the CMS website says (basically that its a fair amount worked out by their income etc) and what he tells me the effect on him is, and he isn't the most truthful person so i don't really know what to do for the best.

The money would be a huge help to me. It costs £100 a month just for our sons to get the bus to school. It's much too far to walk and it isn't safe to walk. Our daughter is still in primary school so we walk together. I'm always struggling to get them what they need and i desperately want to try and save something for their future if i possibly can too.

He tells me he would be left with £130 a month if he pays me what the CMS have said, so he would need to move house because he couldn't afford rent or the petrol to work and pick the kids up (when he has them)

[AlmostAJillSandwich]

So basically, he'd be paying roughly 1/8th of his monthly salary for his kids? He chose to have children, he should damn well be paying for them, and 1/8th of his income is NOTHING compared to the % you pay of yours to clothe ,feed, house etc.

You were incredibly more than fair to not ask for the backdated payments when he;s been lying to you about his income to get away with paying less.

Less per month for his 3 kids than his car, thats disgusting, he can get rid of the car then eh if he can't afford to up the payments to CMS rate. It isn't essential, money for his kids is.

[AlmostAJillSandwich]

BooHoo, he can look elsewhere in his life and cut down what he's spending then can't he in order to provide for his kids. Fancy car, give it up and get a run around, expensive tv package, cut it down to the minimum, downgrade his internet etc.

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

i've always had it drummed into me that they take everything they can from dads and leave them with next to nothing.

Who told you this? It’s rubbish!

[TheSecretMole]

Could I ask, was your relationship abusive in any way before you broke up?

[AlaskaSometimes]

Just go directly to CMS. It’s not for you, it’s for the children and they deserve that.

[IamXXHearMeRoar]

I have a question op, if your best mate came to you with this story what would you tell her? Oh poor him, can't afford to parent anymore now he has a car and child free life to pay for - you should be both parents for free and take all the responsibility for the dc you both chose to create forever? I don't think so!

I don't know who drummed what into you but I can assure you CMS does not leave anyone with next to nothing from their paycheck. Please wise up for the sake of your dc and stop pandering to the patriarchy!

www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out/how-the-child-maintenance-service-works-out-child-maintenance

You say you don't want bad feelings between you but what you actually are describing here is that you want to keep him happy and not have bad feelings towards you or the children. Stop putting him first, you owe it to your dc to do what is best for them from now on not what is best for him.

Why don't you have bad feelings caused by his bullshit and disrespect for your dc? You bloody well should! Maybe you need to focus on your feelings, raise your self esteem and stand up for yourself.

His life choices are no longer your concern, his problems are not yours, you are free from all of that and so are your dc. No more walking on eggshells trying not to upset the man in the family. Am I ringing any bells here?

[teenagerparent]

So the new version of the CSA ( CMS ) for 3 children is 19% of his salary before tax and NI is taken off but after any pension contributions.

So on a salary of £28,000 he would be expected to pay you £102 a week, if they collect it for you ( probably easier in this case ) you would lose £4.08 in fees.

Can I ask what you receive from him now and what the CMS say his salary is? They get it direct from HMRC so it will be correct. If he can't afford to pay what they say then he needs to live within his means, his children should come before an expensive car.

Please put the children before his feelings!!

[IamXXHearMeRoar]

When was the last time anyone said "oh I can't afford to pay NI this month, I will reduce those pesky tax payments until I earn more so I can pay for the car instead"?

[WineAndTiramisu]

Go via CMS, he's bullshitting you, think of what percentage of your salary goes on the children, probably lot more than the percentage CMS will be taking off him!
That's your children's money, and they're entitled to it

[CheeseandGherkins]

Go through the cms and get the full amount that your children deserve.

[Sammy901]

To be honest he’s taking the mick out of you! Cms is the minimum, he will have plenty left over but just not as much for luxuaries maybe but then he has 3 kids! That’s life! Who cares if he has £130 extra after all his bills are paid...maybe he should look into his finances and cut some of the extras he doesn’t needs but more then likely has. how much extra do you have once all bills are paid ..Nothing!

He hardly has them anyway! He is talking pure bullshit. Effect on petrol when getting the DC, once a month

Like you have said you can’t afford pocket money or extras, take the full cms amount and start giving them some pocket money! Use it to pay for bus fare for your son and school clothes etc

Put some money into savings account each month for them.

He doesn’t even have a toothbrush for them at there house and has to take the one from yours! And your worried about taking extra money from him!? He’s playing you for a fool and he knows it. He will plead poverty, don’t listen.

[Sammy901]

And I wouldn’t accept £50 extra a month! When by your posts it should be £100s more? Go for the full amount of cms!

[Glumglowworm]

Go through the CMS!

I never know why people don’t tbh, unless there’s a decent private arrangement in place. If the NRP is intent on paying as little as they can get away with then absolutely hand it all over to CMS.

You both created these children, you should both bear the cost of raising them. You’re already doing 99% of the parenting, make sure that at least financially the NRP is doing their share (and CMS is hardly famed for its generosity to RPs)