PhD and planning to start TTC?

[SarahH12]

I've posted a few times about starting a PhD in a few weeks. Have also asked this in "Student Parents". One of the things influencing us the most with my decision is our desire to start a family - well technically extend our family as we have DSD (5). We really don't want to wait another 4 years but I am no stranger to the world of academia and so know how much of a slog it can be even without DC. Has anyone got pregnant / had DC whilst doing a PhD? Can you go part time at all? DP is in a professional job with reasonably long hours (and significantly more pay than me) and so if we had DC it'd either mean me going part time or us putting them full time in nursery. If others have been in a similar situation I'd really love to hear your experiences.

[SarahH12]

Just to clarify as well, we wouldn't start TTC immediately, more thinking maybe in 2 years in time ( and its a 4 year course).

[UKsounding]

Do you plan to have an academic career in science? If you take time off or go P/T before defending your PhD thesis due to having kids, you would probably kiss goodbye any chance of an academic career - you certainly would in my field as it would be seen as "lacking commitment".
To balance life/work you would have to wait to have DC until you are a postdoc and even then it might be a career terminator. Not a pleasant situation, but still the reality IME unfortunately... I have known male PhD students/parents who completed and went on to a successful academic career, but no women. It isn't about juggling work/home commitments. It is about the attitudes of other scientists.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Either you postpone your PhD, or go ahead and TTC later. I did an MSC pre kids, there is Noway I cod have managed even that with kids.

[DeltaG]

I agree with UKsounding. A PhD is a full time commitment and if your experiments don't go to plan/your data is not great, you'll need to put in extra hours on top of that.

My DS is 19 months old and I had no idea I would have such a difficult pregnancy - I had hyperemesis gravidarum until 7 months. I then had a traumatic birth that resulted in me needing a blood transfusion and going on to develop postnatal depression (which was swiftly treated). I took minimum maternity leave (3 months) and when I returned to work in my sci/tech industry job, they refused to give me any of my previous projects to work on again and then terminated my contract instead of renewing it as had been promised before I got pregnant.

My health problems were treated as an inconvenience and I was given the general impression that I wasn't taking my work seriously enough (even though they could see with their own eyes I was unwell).

Two of my male friends had children while doing a PhD, but I don't know of any women who successfully managed it. This has been in science though, I'm not sure what other subject areas are like.

[SarahH12]

UKsounding thank you for your honest opinion. I would be looking to go back into industry after my PhD. I get what you mean about the attitudes of other scientists. I experienced the negativity of other scientists towards those with DC previously on my MRes. I started my undergraduate degree whilst with somebody with 50:50 custody of an 18 month old - his DS then became my sole responsibility for the 50% of the time as my now ex was totally useless. When I was on my MRes and still with this person who had a DS, I experienced a lot of negativity from other scientists who thought it was impossible to dedicate the required time to academia whilst looking after a family. I did find it pretty tough going and that was just on my undergraduate / MRes.

Now I'm older I don't so much care about what my peers think. It's more about whether I could cope with the demands of both - would I be missing out on key milestones of my DC or conversely would I be missing out on things with the PhD whilst looking after my DC? It is things like that that bother me about the prospect of trying to do both together. But I know that neither DP or I want to delay for 4 or more years...

[SarahH12]

Sorry probably should have said, PhD is in the sciences but not lab based so no worries about chemicals etc during pregnancy / whilst (if) breastfeeding.

[Camomila]

If it makes you feel any better this is my 7 year plan...
Y1 (this sept) first year of part time MSc
Y2 finish MSc have DC2 just after I've handed in dissertation
Y3 'maternity leave'
Y4 and Y5 phd
Y6 have DC3 and take maternity leave
Y7 write up

We'll see how it goes as I know I cant just magic up DCs and phd funding exactly when I want them

But I really do feel I should at least try...

[SarahH12]

I like your plan Camomila

Sorry DeltaG I must have cross posted with you. It sounds like they treated you pretty awfully. I'm sorry you went through that.

I guess as well its not just my peers opinions, which I can just let brush over me, it is my supervisors opinion too.

[DeltaG]

It was unpleasant and I am still somewhat bitter about it, but it is unfortunately not uncommon in science (whether academia or industry).

I wasn't trying to put a downer on your plan, just trying to show you that the inherent sexism in science, coupled with the unknowns of pregnancy and childbirth, can conspire against women, even with the best will int he world.

How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Are you able to wait until afterward?

[Ketchup123]

Bad idea. You'll never finish the PhD/get work because you won't have childcare. Wait until you're finished PhD AND have a job.

[WatermelonSugar]

I had my DS midway through my PhD and it worked out really well. I did three years full time, then had a year out on maternity leave, then went back three days a week for another 2 yrs to finish the analysis and writing up. What worked for me was that I had NERC funding, so got reasonable maternity pay for 6 months, and also that I'd got my fieldwork out the way (though if you don't need to do child-unfriendly fieldwork then that won't be a problem for you. Like you I was also older than the other PhD students and didn't give a hoot about what anyone else thought, which was a great help. And if you've got an MRes as well, you'll also have a lot of the skills that some students are learning from scratch which will save you time certainly in the early years. The flexibility about working hours was also really helpful when I went back, meaning I got plenty of time to spend with my son - it was just like having a part-time job

I think another thing in your favour is that you'll be going back to industry, not staying in academia. I also knew that I didn't want to stay in academia and as you and a PP have commented, it can be a very unforgiving workplace for women with young children.

I was also very lucky that my supervisor was an amazing woman who thought it was important that women in science had the same chances at combining a career and family life as the men. It's not your job to dismantle the patriarchy single handed of course , but the more women taking their places in jobs/ courses that are traditionally male dominated the more equal society will become. Also you'll get to be a doctor and that's cool (even if you have to spend all your time explaining you're not a proper doctor...)

[geekone]

Of course you can, but it will take longer and you might find studying for a viva with kids really difficult

[Ttbb]

I know someone who has. She has had to rely heavily on nursery and family in addition to taking time out.

[Amd724]

I finished my PhD a year ago, husband and I started TTC about 7 months later. I'd really caution you against TTC while doing a PhD. I was single at first during my PhD and even then the PhD was incredibly overwhelming. A friend of mine has children, it took him 5 years to finish his PhD. With just me and my partner, it took 4 years for me to finish. I had serious mental health issues during my PhD that I'd cringe to think I'd do while pregnant or with a child. Academia is not friendly to women who are pregnant. It's best to wait until you have a job, but even then you won't be treated very well. I'm essentially leaving academia after I have my child, because its not family friendly. I'm not in science, I'm in economics, but the story is the same in almost every subject.

[Summers1]

I did a masters when I had a baby. It is stressful, but I finished it.

[DeltaG]

Also to add for the OP - I finished my PhD 10 years ago and have worked in academia and industry since then. The poor treatment I received during and after my pregnancy was in industry (academia is as bad, if not worse).

[Summers1]

It is so strange they are not helpful to academics as they are incredibly helpful to pregnant students. I think unis play by the rules so they don't have any discrimination cases against them.

[Summers1]

If you will only have the 1 child could you not take a short maternity leave?

[Summers1]

Just read that back. Yeah of course if your baby was in full time nursery you could do it. Sorry, I thought you meant you had no childcare.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

When I was finishing up my PhD (lab based) I was working 14-16 hrs 7 days a week to get data before the deadline. I couldn't have managed with a baby too. I had my first child as a post doc and was lucky enough to have a very supportive boss, but even with that there was a sense that I wasn't pulling my weight while pregnant and on maternity leave. I think it's a side effect of the high-pressure short-term contract set up of the system. Once back I basically had to move to a non-lab-based role that meant I could work regular hours and it just about works, but only because I have a good childcare support network for late night meetings etc. and I can do some work from home. Unfortunately it's true that science is not a family friendly industry, but that won't change until the funding system changes which is pretty unlikely.

[Hedgehoghogger]

It's do-able but no more tough than working - although this depends on your discipline.

I had 3 babies during my PhD and went straight into teaching post after. Social sciences though.

I worked on the side to allow me to afford childcare (worked on phd in evenings then). I did very little bit work, study and care for babies for 3 years though.

Still somehow submitted in 4 years. Looking back ... crazy! I was young though ... had PhD and 3 children by 28.

[lovetowasteitagain]

I'm doing a part-time funded PhD, have one child in preschool and one in school. I'd be full-time but can't get wrap-around care out in the sticks unless they're both school aged. I started an MA at 36 weeks pregnant with my first. It sounds like the arts are a lot more flexible than the sciences, because I've taken my kids to lectures, supervision and presentations when I've had to and they've been welcomed with open arms! My eldest was breastfed through several field-trips and lectures.

[SarahH12]

DeltaG that's interesting (and sad!) you were in industry and they still treated you that way! My current boss is amazing, totally cool with parents having flexi time or going part time, well for most roles in our team. Obviously there are some science based that can't have as much flexibility but he's all for it wherever possible. Maybe I'm not valuing my current position as much as I should!

See after reading all this and re-reading my other threads I'm partially regretting accepting the offer

[bridgetreilly]

I know one woman who had 3 children while doing her PhD. She still finished early. glares at her with intense jealousy

However. She was not in a science field. She had a brilliant thesis which worked out perfectly. She worked a lot of very late nights and the library gave her a desk in a separate room so she could have a baby with her. Her husband had flexible hours and I think they also paid for quite a bit of childcare.

In the sciences, a part-time PhD is much harder and time off for maternity is also liable to cause problems. Not necessarily that you won't be allowed it, just that the research moves on without you there. Don't just spring it on them. Talk to your prospective supervisor and other students in the lab and judge the level of support you're likely to get.