Sick leave coming to an end - how to move on?

[rockstuckhardplace]

Since 2021, I've had three periods of sick leave, each lasting a few months, for the same condition. During my second period of sick leave, my employer advertised my role externally and did not inform me of this. The closing date was during my sick leave but at a time when they knew I was returning shortly. On my return, they claimed that the advertised role was not the same as the role I was performing (despite identical job title and role description). They then advised me of some additional responsibilities covered by the advertised role that were not in the job advert, which made it a more senior position, but these were responsibilities that I already held. I raised a grievance, which was not upheld. I appealed, providing evidence to substantiate my case in the form of emails, extracts from my performance reviews and extracts from my scorecards. The appeal was rejected. This process (from my return to work to the rejection of the appeal) took about three months. During this time, nothing happened with the advertised role (that I was aware of).

A couple of months later, I unfortunately fell ill again, starting my third period of sick leave, which is ongoing. During this time, the externally advertised role was filled.

I was substantially recovered by Christmas, but I don't really have a job to return to and need to find new employment elsewhere. My GP also feels that it could be detrimental to my health to return to work for this employer and has therefore continued to sign me off for a little longer to give me some breathing space to sort this all out. I should add that my illness is not work-related and I don't need any adjustments in future to enable me to do my job, but I've been through a lot in the past few years, and the stress of the grievance process and effectively losing my job by stealth has been an additional burden I could have done without. I therefore don't want the stress of trying to return to this job. I also have decided that it's not worth bringing a case for constructive dismissal. I just want a clean break and to be able to start afresh and keep my career going.

So I've started job hunting, and I have a couple of interviews secured. I don't want to get too ahead of myself, but do feel that I need to plan for the eventuality of being offered a new role. Conversely I also need to know what I'm going to do if I don't get either of these positions. Ideally I want to move from one role to the other without creating a break in my employment history which I'd then have to explain.

I also have had a standard request to undergo an Occupational Health Assessment. I haven't actioned this yet.

I'd really appreciate any constructive advice on how to handle the situation to get the best possible outcome for me. As mentioned above, I just want a clean break, and I don't want to share my medical history any more as I've felt forced into oversharing with my current employer. I don't know what my employer's reference policy is, so I want them to agree to let me leave with just a basic reference (if that isn't their usual policy anyway) ie one that doesn't reference my periods of absence.

Also, if I don't secure a new role before my sick leave ends, should I resign or wait for them to take action (ie force them to take steps to dismiss me or come to some arrangement?)

Thanks for reading.

There are omissions and inconsistentencies that make it difficult here.
Op states their job has been given to someone else but its also a more senior post but also they were doing those parts of the job
A grievance has not been upheld
Op states 3 periods of sick leave returning each time
The new role was advertised during their second period -Op returned
To what role?
Op is now due to return , is saying there is no job for them but is returning
To what role?
What is the plan?
There is no evidence here that Op has no role to return to.
It would be wise to meet and ask for a plan, complete the OH appointment as asked.
It reads like Op has assumed the advertised role was hers, assumed she has no job and is reacting because they didn't up hold her grievance.
Based on the information we have it would be VERY unwise to restart another grievance process.
If indeed Op is returning to a completely different role etc then she has a point.
An illness that's not work related, requires no support / adjustment and is not likely to recur doesn't point to them replacing Op.
It may be the new person took on some of Ops roles -fair enough.
Likely there will be a shuffle around when Op returns.
Perfectly normal that on long term leave work has to be covered for the needs of the business/ service.

Being annoyed they did that isn't a reason to go all out like Op has.
All the " HR experts" may well be that but read the Op
It's all based on her assumptions

Being annoyed they did that isn't a reason to go all out like Op has.
All the " HR experts" may well be that but read the Op
It's all based on her assumptions

Yes - we did get to that conclusion on the first page of the thread.

But I doubt the OP will be back. They didn't get the answer that they wanted.

My post was replying to the later HR advice

HR terms
-Op is mistaken in her belief
Layman's terms -
Op is pissed off she didn't " win"
Win what though?
Her job, which to all intents and purposes she is expected to return to shortly

I had a job that was dependent on me passing an exam in December. I saw an identical role being advertised for a January start date - in September. So they employ this woman. I pass my exam and we are seriously overstaffed. Ironically woman has got pregnant and needs to go on maternity leave in February or March. She is never replaced 😂.

Things didn't improve for me in that role obviously. I got seriously ill and we agreed when I left as to what my reference would say based on a Confidentiality Agreement. As to new employers - it's best to tell them that your previous company did this to you which is why you're leaving. Do you really want to work for another company who thinks what happened is OK?

Not to twist the knife but she also can't spell Croydon

But other than the OP having several lemgthy periods off sick, nothing has happened!

So the story goes like this: "Hi, potential new employer, for the last couple of years I have had loads of time off sick; my bastard employers appointed a senior person over my head whilst I was on the second lengthy period off sick so I submitted a grievance that they didn't appoint me even though I wasn't in work; then I went off sick again; now I am fit to return but I am not returning because my employers don't think enough of me; I am making up the fact that I have no job to return to because actually I do have one, I just don't want it; by the way I was thinking of not telling you about all that time off sick; not that I want to whine to you or anything..."

Potential new employers response:
(a) Well thank you for your honesty, we love it when people tel us how truly awful their last employer was, can you start a week on Tuesday...
or
(b) next candidate please.

@Neriah @Croyden121 anyone else on this thread who knows about HR and sick leave.

Please could you tell me to what extent an employer is entitled (as in has a legal right to) to know why you aren't attending work.

So say you are unwell for a reason you don't want to disclose as it's very private/personal/serious and can't attend work, if you phone in and say 'I can't come today because of a personal emergency', is the employer entitled to get a reason from you? Or are you entitled to say 'sorry it's very personal and private and I don't want to say'?

If you don't give a specific reason (either saying generally 'an emergency' without saying you are unwell OR you just say you are unwell but refuse to identify the medical condition), can that be a legitimate matter for disciplining or similar?

Not in HR, or a lawyer, but if you say 'emergency' you surely wouldn't be covered by sick leave or sick pay policies.

if you say 'emergency' you surely wouldn't be covered by sick leave or sick pay policies.

I'm not concerned about that. I just want to known what the employer's rights are to personal 'information' in any detail.

They will need a vague idea to grant the correct type of leave.

That's my question though, what if someone refuses to give any kind of indication at all. Can the employer 'force it' or make a disciplinary issue or are you entitled as a matter of privacy to say I don't wish to say. It was an emergency and the reasons are private.

I suggest you start your own thread rather that hijack someone else's. You'll get better advice that way

If you say it’s a personal emergency that’s not sickness absence so might be unpaid. It might be a condition of receiving company sick pay that you confirm the reason for your absence and generally co operate with the company. It would be unusual to discipline for refusing to disclose, but if they suspect misconduct or fraud then they might

I agree.

I guess it's up to the employer, but it would be entirely possible for the employer to say that they won't pay unexplained sick leave. Occupational sick pay is often dependent upon meeting certain criteria. But people assume that an employer must pay SSP. They can refuse to if they are not satisfied that someone is really sick. And I'd imagine they'd get a lot of traction in that belief if someone refused to tell them what is wrong.

BTW @Croyden121 knows nothing about HR.

I think it depends on the context.
It is possible for sickness to go down as personal ( miscarriage, termination of pregnancy, IVF) when you don't wish to disclose.
Emergency leave is tricky and I would be wary of some already in capability or formal absence stages suddenly switching to another type of leave with refusal to state why.
If I had a diligent trusted employee who suddenly had to go off I would ask if they wanted unpaid or emergency AL as a one off .

Give over @Croyden121 - you lost everyone at "should of" in your first post, and it's gone downhill since then. I've never heard such rubbish.

It sounds wise for the company to employ someone else in a near identical role to you as they are probably worried about you being off work so much. They haven't fired you and surely someone else taking up the slack will take the pressure off you too. Now definitely doesn't seem like a good time to get a new job.

The issue with the Senior Role : I think you should look at this from another perspective - if you weren't ill and you were in the business and not off sick, you could have possibly applied for it and you would be over the moon.

You're saying you don't have a job to return to, but that you don't want to return to work ? I'm confused, do you have a job or not. It sounds like you do.

Your company hasn't done anything wrong, because your company has the right to make changes to their organisational structure. I am often involved in analysis that looks at organisational change and that includes the roles and responsibilities of the people working in it from time to time. I cannot say I enjoy making recommendations that mean people lose their jobs or their roles are less robust - but these decisions are not made on the back of how people feel, it's made on the back of what's best for the business.

If I was you, I would go back to work if I was physically able to and cooperate with the process. I'd try and get back into the good books and focus on taking care of my health and communicating with my employer.

It's reasonable that you've had a bit of a wobble with a recent health diagnosis and a clear conversation around your struggles will probably get everything back on the right track.

If you're still adamant you want to put yourself through more of this stress - you need to get your contract, employee handbook and the sickness policy.

Read those documents really carefully. You need to discuss the situation thoroughly with a legal advisor. If you cannot afford legal advice then you can go through Citizens Advice Bureau. There is also Equality Advisory and Support Services that have an advice line. I recommend getting in touch with Citizens Advice first.

I'd also stop filing grievances until you've read the company policies and you've had appropriate legal advice.

I think you're potentially screwing yourself out of a job here if you do not undergo the occupational assessment, but legal advice is going to be really important here.

You should never lie on a job application or your CV. You can be fired immediately if you're ever found out.

I hope you’re feeling better now and aren’t expecting any relapses. Would it help for you to think that, while you’re off on extended sick leave, they still have the role to fill? Someone has to take up your work while you’re off and that would be quite a strain for the person involved. So they have a duty to provide replacement labour while you’re off so long but it also sounds as if they’re honouring your job remaining available? I think if you’re off, although it’s disappointing for you to lose opportunities, you have to be able to appreciate what you’ve got. I’d stay in your role and express appreciation for them holding your position and you can look for another position while you’re there, if you still felt too awkward?

Oh dear, we don’t know the full story like you do but definitely think the employer needs to protect all their workforce and that means bringing in enough labour to cover your job and not strain their staff or lose work that might threaten everyone’s jobs. They’ve left you your job open and of course if you’re too ill to reliably manage the department they have a responsibility to make sure someone can, hence the new senior role. Obviously you’re losing out but that’s the nature of being ‘unreliable’, very sadly. The law is there to make sure you’re fairly treated, not keep all benefits as if you’d been grafting away the whole time. It’s a shock to realise that your value is measured in part by your health, despite a great attitude and skills, but unfortunately companies do need workers to be reliable and productive, esp. in this climate. Personally, I’d say I’d realised how well they’d treated me now and what a shock it had been to be ill and realise how close we all are to losing status, and that you appreciate them holding your position. It’ll be an awful lot less stressful for you staying somewhere you know until you’re fully healed, rested and confident - and imo that is the ‘best thing for you’ and not the company, as they might prefer a clean break and full reliability with someone else. Hope all goes well and do provide some updates if you ever feel able.

Unfortunately as I found to my cost, a basic reference is a good enough reason to refuse you a position. This is because employers are no longer allowed to give bad references so a basic one is seen as just that. I think the advice to return to your current role is good, see how you cope going back to work and hopefully get some good time under your belt with no sickness to improve your reference

This is not true, employers absolutely can give a bad reference, they can give an awful one. It has to be accurate, not false, but as long as it’s the truth they can give as bad a ref as they choose.

OP, you mentioned you are in a niche sector. Is it possible that a potential new employer might vaguely know your current employer and chat to them, in private, about you. This might be wrong but it happens quite a lot and you probably couldn’t prove it.