Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Advice please: career change - project management?

46 replies

NativeWildlife · 31/12/2022 21:13

Hello,

I'm thinking about a career change into project management, but I have no idea where to start.

If you know about project management, please help me out!

Background: I'm mid 40s, been a secondary science teacher for 15 years so need to match salary of about £40k (so going to entry level is a problem).

I love teaching, I'm good at it. I don't want to leave. But I also do not want to go into management, and so I'm looking at a pay cut every year now. We can't afford that.

Do you think I can retrain?
What kind of courses do you recommend?
Which flavour of project management do you think is best?

I've also started doing some data camp courses. Not sure what I can do with that but it's interesting.

OP posts:
DomesticShortHair · 01/01/2023 14:56

No, it’s not financial auditing. It’s system auditing- ISO 9001, 27001, 14001, 45001 etc. Not a graduate role. Nor will it pay the big k in the long run, but you can get around the 45-50k fairly easily, with some experience and the right job, apparently. The 36k was definitely a hard starting figure from the company I was talking to, though.

Logistria · 01/01/2023 15:13

Ah, that's interesting. Thanks for explaining.

CoolSlinky · 02/01/2023 10:12

Our project managers have 4-6 years experience on projects - to echo what everyone else says - some clients use the packages mentioned but if you don't have the knowledge you can't manage the project successfully. I'd ask yourself why you don't want to go into management but want to go into project management. What is it about management that you don't like but you think won't matter for project management?

We employ grads at £40k with exceptional analytical and communication skills - but that's London based. Age would not be a problem, but - and I know I'm going to get hammered for saying this but you've been institutionalised in an educational sector which comes across as fairly dysfunctional - we'd have similar concerns with any long term public sector workers. I think the private sector would need to see evidence of the right attitude before they'd place you into a management position.

I'd look into data analysis or cybersecurity qualification if you have the ability to analyse, think critically and problem-solve, you should be able to make the leap.

NativeWildlife · 02/01/2023 18:45

😆 I'd like to hope I'm not quite institutionalised, but the industry is very dysfunctional (I like to think that if I was institutionalised I'd be more amenable to getting onto the leadership treadmill - as it is, there's no way I want a part of that insufferable self-serving nonsense. Not that I can say that anywhere out loud).

How can I demonstrate 'the right attitude'? (I'm quite good at having the 'wrong' attitude in a school, asking all those difficult questions & pointing out that all the "new" initiatives are just rebranded old ones 😆)

Actually, though I do love my day-to-day job it might be refreshing to work somewhere where I'm not perpetually wrong.

OP posts:
swanling · 02/01/2023 18:51

and I know I'm going to get hammered for saying this but you've been institutionalised in an educational sector which comes across as fairly dysfunctional - we'd have similar concerns with any long term public sector workers.

I'm also curious what you mean by this @CoolSlinky ? What would your concerns be?

CoolSlinky · 03/01/2023 11:58

I'd like to hope I'm not quite institutionalised, but the industry is very dysfunctional (I like to think that if I was institutionalised I'd be more amenable to getting onto the leadership treadmill - as it is, there's no way I want a part of that insufferable self-serving nonsense. Not that I can say that anywhere out loud).
How can I demonstrate 'the right attitude'? (I'm quite good at having the 'wrong' attitude in a school, asking all those difficult questions & pointing out that all the "new" initiatives are just rebranded old ones 😆)

That attitude right there - the worn-out, cynical, closed-minded, management are idiots, this whole thing is pointless attitude....I'd be very worried about that, I'd worry about how you turn that around to not infect our team with your negativity - asking challenging questions is good but you need to know when to shut up. You have been worn down with years of shit - the years of shit is also the problem. I'd expect any of our team to not put up with years of shit, if they weren't happy with us - I'd expect them to manage their career and personal development so they didn't reach this point.

Our team are shiny and enthusiastic, open to change and new ideas - they give things a go, eager to learn, to try out and suggest new management initiatives...some don't work, some do but we don't have the energy for negative, cynical, battle weary team members who suck the energy out of the room because they are fed up with trying new things.

I have worked with people who have tried to make the move from the misery of the public sector to private sector and they couldn't shake it, they were shaped by the daily battle, it was who they were - they moaned about everything - they don't act they moan even about the good stuff.

That's my concern so I'd be looking to test how flexible you were to change, that you weren't a moaner -you are ready for genuine change and you'd have to convince me because I'd see you as a risky hire. We hire on attitude first - even if you are really bright - if your attitude is off - you won't get a job with us.

On a more positive note - given your working timetable you could apply to internships, they operate over the summer for 6 weeks and many can be flexible on these dates, you get paid at least min wage - it would be an opportunity for you to experience a different work environment, understand how well you'd cope with going back to the beginning (and not behaving like the teacher in the room with your new shiny young colleagues) - your employer would see how you work in a different environment - it's a great way for both employer and employee to test whether they fit together.

MichaelAndEagle · 03/01/2023 12:29

However given a different management style you may flourish! I have a friend who is a teacher, looking to leave. The way her bosses speak to her is terrible, they treat her like a naughty child, patronise her. She is given no credit and no autonomy as a professional. She is not trusted to carry out her role as she decides to meet set objectives. I find it astonishing.

I do agree with the post above about a different attitude, and I am public sector myself. I see that attitude all the time, bit I do think the environment shapes the attitude and its not really surprising.

JoBrodie · 03/01/2023 13:47

Good luck @NativeWildlife :)

I've just spotted this event that may be of interest. The BCS (British Computer Society) regularly runs careers events and this one is in February.

Hybrid event: Getting into Project Management
Wednesday 22 February, 6:30pm - 8:00pm
Online (webinar) or in person (London)
FREE

https://www.bcs.org/events-calendar/2023/february/hybrid-event-getting-into-project-management-project-management-sg/

Speakers
• Eileen Roden
• Lindsay Scott

"We will cover:

• The different types of positions available for those new to project management
• Understanding which transferable skills are really needed in project management today
• The development areas you need to be thinking about and closing skills gaps
• What you can be doing to find that first role."

Jo

coffeemonster28 · 04/01/2023 07:09

I've been a project manager for 12 years now, most of it in IT (higher education sector). Agree with others who said that to get into project management you would need to gain some experience first, possibly as a project coordinator/junior PM role. It would be extremely unlikely to get a PM job at 40k with no previous experience and even if you somehow did, you'd be unlikely to keep it and deliver on time, scope and budget without having specific knowledge and skills. You mentioned you don't want to be in management, but being a PM you are still a manager, usually without the authority over the team that you have to manage to deliver on the project.
Having said that, also agree with those who said that your best bet would be to look for PM-related roles in the education sector and take it from there. PRINCE2 is useful to indicate to the employer that you are somewhat serious about getting into project management roles but you need the experience first and foremost.

NativeWildlife · 07/01/2023 18:55

CoolSlinky · 03/01/2023 11:58

I'd like to hope I'm not quite institutionalised, but the industry is very dysfunctional (I like to think that if I was institutionalised I'd be more amenable to getting onto the leadership treadmill - as it is, there's no way I want a part of that insufferable self-serving nonsense. Not that I can say that anywhere out loud).
How can I demonstrate 'the right attitude'? (I'm quite good at having the 'wrong' attitude in a school, asking all those difficult questions & pointing out that all the "new" initiatives are just rebranded old ones 😆)

That attitude right there - the worn-out, cynical, closed-minded, management are idiots, this whole thing is pointless attitude....I'd be very worried about that, I'd worry about how you turn that around to not infect our team with your negativity - asking challenging questions is good but you need to know when to shut up. You have been worn down with years of shit - the years of shit is also the problem. I'd expect any of our team to not put up with years of shit, if they weren't happy with us - I'd expect them to manage their career and personal development so they didn't reach this point.

Our team are shiny and enthusiastic, open to change and new ideas - they give things a go, eager to learn, to try out and suggest new management initiatives...some don't work, some do but we don't have the energy for negative, cynical, battle weary team members who suck the energy out of the room because they are fed up with trying new things.

I have worked with people who have tried to make the move from the misery of the public sector to private sector and they couldn't shake it, they were shaped by the daily battle, it was who they were - they moaned about everything - they don't act they moan even about the good stuff.

That's my concern so I'd be looking to test how flexible you were to change, that you weren't a moaner -you are ready for genuine change and you'd have to convince me because I'd see you as a risky hire. We hire on attitude first - even if you are really bright - if your attitude is off - you won't get a job with us.

On a more positive note - given your working timetable you could apply to internships, they operate over the summer for 6 weeks and many can be flexible on these dates, you get paid at least min wage - it would be an opportunity for you to experience a different work environment, understand how well you'd cope with going back to the beginning (and not behaving like the teacher in the room with your new shiny young colleagues) - your employer would see how you work in a different environment - it's a great way for both employer and employee to test whether they fit together.

Thank you that's very helpful and constructive.

I wonder what your response would be if I'd said the opposite?

How would one prove to you that one wasn't "institutionalised"?

Actually, scrap that. Don't worry about it.

OP posts:
NativeWildlife · 07/01/2023 18:57

JoBrodie · 03/01/2023 13:47

Good luck @NativeWildlife :)

I've just spotted this event that may be of interest. The BCS (British Computer Society) regularly runs careers events and this one is in February.

Hybrid event: Getting into Project Management
Wednesday 22 February, 6:30pm - 8:00pm
Online (webinar) or in person (London)
FREE

https://www.bcs.org/events-calendar/2023/february/hybrid-event-getting-into-project-management-project-management-sg/

Speakers
• Eileen Roden
• Lindsay Scott

"We will cover:

• The different types of positions available for those new to project management
• Understanding which transferable skills are really needed in project management today
• The development areas you need to be thinking about and closing skills gaps
• What you can be doing to find that first role."

Jo

Thank you, this is really helpful!

I think PM is probably out of the running now, given the replies. But thank you for this really useful info. I'll look into it anyway!

OP posts:
NativeWildlife · 07/01/2023 19:03

MichaelAndEagle · 03/01/2023 12:29

However given a different management style you may flourish! I have a friend who is a teacher, looking to leave. The way her bosses speak to her is terrible, they treat her like a naughty child, patronise her. She is given no credit and no autonomy as a professional. She is not trusted to carry out her role as she decides to meet set objectives. I find it astonishing.

I do agree with the post above about a different attitude, and I am public sector myself. I see that attitude all the time, bit I do think the environment shapes the attitude and its not really surprising.

Environment & attitude are linked, to be sure, but it's one of those situations where an attitude is relative to the prevailing culture. My attitude was "wrong" before, but now it's "right". I haven't changed, management has.

We've recently had a change in management and finally things do align with my way of doing things. And I'm loving it!

I'd love to stay in teaching; as I said, I love what I do and I'm good at it. The problem is the annual pay cut isn't going to keep up with the increasing cost of living.

OP posts:
Chewbecca · 07/01/2023 19:04

Poss NC fail OP, in case that concerns you?

HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 07/01/2023 21:51

What about starting as a digital trainer, that has strong alignment with teaching and is one of the routes into projects.

I'm not sure of salary and is like to differ by location and the industry.

NativeWildlife · 07/01/2023 23:17

Chewbecca · 07/01/2023 19:04

Poss NC fail OP, in case that concerns you?

Ah bum, you're right

OP posts:
Wallywobbles · 07/01/2023 23:45

Have a look at instructional design. I'm on 45k€. First role. Lots of teaching experience that transfers. WFH.

ChaoticCrumble · 07/01/2023 23:54

Pm in learning & development? I had to go to an L&D conf recently and loads of big companies that do work for clients were there, presumably they need good PMs but you’d need to know about adult learning principles maybe…

themusingsofaninsomniac · 09/02/2024 16:01

I've not read the thread, but I'm a PM and moved in through a secondment (was in marketing/events prior though so not a world away)

I'd imagine entry level wouldn't pay 40k, though it could do, pay is hugely variable. I'd also look into the different niches and specialisms to see what you might be interested in. You'd want to start studying for the APM PMQ if you can and start learning about the project lifecycle, methodologies etc

themusingsofaninsomniac · 09/02/2024 16:03

I would also advise against prince2, it's outdated and most places want APM (as it's not methodology specific) or Agile if in a more tech IT space.

CorBlimeyGuvna · 09/02/2024 16:08

NativeWildlife · 01/01/2023 14:10

I'm going to have to rejoin linked in, aren't I?
I hate linked in (and I hate Twitter). I'm not cut out for self promotion.

I’m the same OP, feel your pain 😆😂

Try looking at Code First Girls if you’re interested in data / coding courses

In some areas of the country you can also do a Level 3 Project Management qualification for free. Could be a good tester to see if you like it and a route into junior PM work

Whearding · 29/07/2024 22:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page