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Original poster

parental leave denied

675 replies

user1471461798 · 03/03/2018 20:23

I work term time only and requested parental leave for 3 weeks as my daughter leaves school this year and we plan on going to Florida as it’s less money than school holidays. Anyway my employer has rejected it , stating I have enough holiday throughout the year. My argument is I am entitled to this leave and have spoken to Acas who agree with me. I should add that my job entails covering for others, sickness, days off to look after their children and also holidays! How do I deal with this?

OP posts:
underneaththeash · 03/03/2018 22:06

If you don’t really need to work, Just hand in your notice and have your lovely holiday. Time with children is important.

Figgygal · 03/03/2018 22:07

Your dh was foolish to book without having approved it. Another who agrees with flowerys advice but what will you do if they grant it but On other days? You still won't be able to go

Original poster
user1471461798 · 03/03/2018 22:07

My question is because they have not offered me other dates, how can I book another date? They haven’t acted in a lawful way, so how could I do this properly. I may not need to work, but no one works for nothing do they? I just don’t want to upset my new line manager unnecessarily. My husband did a nice thing, thinking because I cover others holidays it would be ok.

OP posts:
endoflevelbaddy · 03/03/2018 22:11

I use parental leave every summer to take time off with my 2. I take 2-3 weeks combined with annual leave to cover a chunk of the school holidays. I have done it wth 3 different companies over the years.

You are entitled to 18 weeks per child up to the age of 18 (government entitlement so applies to everyone regardless of contracted hours and both parents as long as you've been at the company for 12 months and are not self employed / agency worker), Changed a couple of years ago from age 5 to age 18.

It can be used for whatever you like but is unpaid and has to be taken by the week (so not ad hoc days to cover sickness - that is usually a different, company specific dependents policy - may be paid or unpaid). I am usually 'on holiday' for some of mine.

As ACAS have advised you, it is not legal to be flatly denied the leave, they can postpone if they have a strong business reason but they have to offer alternative, mutually suitable dates, within 6 months and not so it would render you ineligible to take it (so in your case until after your DD turns 18 in the not too distant future).

I would suggest emailing HR a link to the government website outlining all this - I have found not all HR depts to be as familiar with parental leave as others and sometimes treat it as a request for unpaid additional holiday which is discretionary.
I would also mention that on advise from ACAS you would like to look at their business case for refusal, and ask about proposed alternative dates.
As mentioned by a pp they may well just offer dates out of term time but I'm not sure of the legalities of that as you're not contracted to work then. Could check that with ACAS though.

flowery · 03/03/2018 22:11

”My question is because they have not offered me other dates, how can I book another date?”

That’s why you go to HR and explain what’s happened, at which point the proper process should then be followed and you will be offered other dates.

drspouse · 03/03/2018 22:11

Op the leave is pro rata so you won't be able to take three weeks a year, just two.

No, it's up to 4 calendar weeks. If she works 16 hours between Monday and Friday each week, 3 weeks holiday is 48 hours work.
And this isn't annual leave.

SuperBeagle · 03/03/2018 22:11

You've said that financially you can afford not to work, but this doesn't ring true because:

  1. You're adamant about taking this trip during term time when it will be cheaper, not during holidays when it would be a non-issue
  1. You're talking about how taking the holiday during the break would cost you 10 months of pay, as though you're the only one financially responsible. Where is your husband in all of this?

Where I am, parental leave does not apply in your situation; it would be annual leave, instead.

ScreamingLevitation · 03/03/2018 22:12

When you write to them, you could include that as the leave is unpaid and you are hoping to take it at a very, very quiet time of year for supply staff, it may actually save the agency money.

Viviennemary · 03/03/2018 22:12

I don't think a holiday to Florida would count as a reason to apply for parental leave. It's usually a given than term time only staff work term time only and don't usually take holidays during that time except by arrangement and not normally for three weeks and certainly not for a holiday. But get your Union to fight it by all means.

Fairenuff · 03/03/2018 22:12

OP are you employed by the LA or by an agency?

Flamingo84 · 03/03/2018 22:12

I’m confused. At first you said your husband booked it as a surprise and didn’t realise that your contract meant no leave in term time.

Then you said:
they should have written to me within 7 days with other dates, but it’s now 2 weeks, hence my husband just booked it as he needed to let his employer know.

So you knew about the holiday, requested the leave and were denied, waited a bit for them to get back to you but when you didn’t hear from them you/he booked it anyway?

In answer to your question, if you believe that you are entitled to this leave and management disagree, you’ll have to go through HR. Give them copies of the refusal if you have an email etc. If not time, date of the meeting and name those present. ACAS normally refer you to a fact sheet or web page so might be worth sending a copy of that too to back up your request.

You’re in the wrong for booking it without getting their approval, they’re in the wrong for not giving alternative dates in the correct timescale. Honestly, I imagine they’ll just offer up an alternate time and you’ll still be in the same position as you are now.

Original poster
user1471461798 · 03/03/2018 22:14

I never said it was beneath me, I said I enjoyed working, I don’t want a final warning on my record. If I need to resign to avoid that, then i will have to. As I have always worked and i’m prepared to try anything, i’m sure i will find something. Please don’t think I think i’m special, i don’t, just want some advise about dealing with this. The holiday is booked and paid for and there’s not much I can do about that. My husband hasn’t put us in any financial difficulty with this, so there’s no point discussing that point

OP posts:
Caselgarcia · 03/03/2018 22:14

I think the school would expect that staff to take holidays in the school holidays, three weeks is half a term.

Fairenuff · 03/03/2018 22:15

OP are you employed by the LA or by an agency?

Wolfiefan · 03/03/2018 22:16

Well you don't have to go. You shouldn't be cross at your employers for expecting you to stick to the contract you signed. Your husband shouldn't have booked a holiday without talking to you first.
Resign or cancel.

drspouse · 03/03/2018 22:17

I don't think a holiday to Florida would count as a reason to apply for parental leave

It's got nothing to do with the employer what you use it for. You could even use it to spend some of the time without your child (e.g. to research schools or childcare, or to pick up a child who's settling into a new school).

Tequilamockinbird · 03/03/2018 22:18

Your job is to cover other people's holidays and absences, therefore you think it's ok that you go on holiday when you should be covering theirs?

Err.....ok Confused

Original poster
user1471461798 · 03/03/2018 22:20

Sorry fairenuff, employed by LA

OP posts:
gillybeanz · 03/03/2018 22:21

How can somebody working term time only expect to take a holiday during term time.
It will need supply for the supply Confused
Does this mean teachers and other term time only can do this then?
I'm confused.
I thought you asked for parental leave if it was unavoidable, or an emergency.

Fairenuff · 03/03/2018 22:22

In England?

roundaboutthetown · 03/03/2018 22:22

OP - I think your problem is a combination of new line manager who doesn't know you well and you working in various different schools. You therefore don't have a particular school wanting to bend over backwards to keep you on the payroll and thus your employer (presumably the LA) has no reason to bend its rules for you. You are the cover - they don't want to have to provide cover for the cover. You may work hard and be loyal, but your loyalty and hard work are spread too thin for anyone to notice. How much stress do you want to go through for all this? Maybe a job where you can attract more of a sense of mutual loyalty is what you need. Covering for others never attracts the same sense of loyalty and looking out for your own, imo. This holiday could be a good opportunity to re-evaluate what sort of job you want to do.

Original poster
user1471461798 · 03/03/2018 22:23

I did ask for other dates, but it was just flatly denied. i didn’t just think they would bend over for me, but did expect to be treated the same as others and within the law

OP posts:
kath6144 · 03/03/2018 22:23

Fairenuff - why keep asking a question that is irrelevant? The fact is her employer - be it the LA or an Agency - HAVE to give her the leave by law, as has been confirmed by ACAS. As long as she has a Contract, and she does from what she has said, then she has the right under employment law to the leave.

Op does mention working for local gvt earlier in the thread, so my bet is she works for the LA, but it wont make any difference to her entitlement.

Willow2017 · 03/03/2018 22:25

It doesnt matter what op does.
She has the same job as others who have taken annual & parental leave.
She requested this and asked if they had alternative dates if nec which is thier right. Her work refused to give them and has not replied in writing within the time frame set by law.

Op is entitled to paternal leave and her employer has to accomodate it sometime. If she doesnt work outside term time then they cannot give her leave then can they?

I would go to hr with what acas said and get everything in writing from your manager first stating they refused leave at any time.

PurpleDaisies · 03/03/2018 22:28

She has the same job as others who have taken annual & parental leave.

In teaching you cannot take annual leave in term time. I have never ever come across a teacher who has taken parental leave for a standard family holiday.

I’d be really interested to hear from anyone who has done this in a school environment.