Dismissal for gross misconduct

[JinJin]

Hi, my daughter aged 25 - a graduate with a masters started on a graduate training scheme with a big company 5 months ago. A dream job, company car etc. Lots of travel within UK. She got two speeding tickets whilst travelling for work and was offered a speed awareness course in lieu of points. She took the course (unbeknownst to us or her employers) on a working day. When asked to explain her whereabouts later on, she lied and said that she had been working from home. Most of the team do work from home at least one day a week. She was found out in her lie; and dismissed for 'gross misconduct'.
I totally know she was wrong. She does too. But this label of 'gross misconduct' will follow her throughout her life. She has not committed a criminal offence.
Has anyone any advice?

[Whatthefucknameisntalreadytake]

Ps she could appeal the dismissal decision and ask if they would accept her immediate resignation instead, she would have to show lots of remorse and insight to convince them that a resignation is a better alternative.

[NotJustaPotforSoup]

It was not a moment of stupidity. It was 4 of them. And 2 of them were dishonest. That's why her employer took the action they did.

What now? Humility in her explanation to potential employers might work, but she's up against it.

[StrawberryMojito]

I agree that if she had only been there 5 months then could she not omit it from her cv entirely. Better to look that she was unemployed then sacked in those circumstances.

[TheWintersmith]

she isn't tainted forever, a 5 months stint can easily be lost on a CV within a year or two.

She needs to do something that won't need a reference from that employer, I'd suggest traveling, something like a working holiday visa you can easily do a up to couple of years at that, comfortably enough to put a bit of distance and get plenty of references from other people.

I have several 4 - 5 month stints of temping that don't often go on the CV, as they don't add anything, I just put ' widget counter smith & co 1996-2000', 'widget counter Jones & co 2000- 2004 ' and don't mention that smith & co went bust and I waitressed and did admin placements for a few months till I got the gig with Jones & co

[DorisLessingsCat]

As Flowery has said, it's not the end of the world. She might have to take a step back but once in a job it's about proving yourself through hard work and success.

And I agree with those that say it's not one error. To get two speeding tickets in 5 months implies she's an habitual speeder, unless she was uncommonly unlucky in being caught. And choosing to lie was a calculated act.

She's got to take responsibility for her actions and work hard to overcome this, not act like a victim.

[JinJin]

She had already worked an extra 4 hours that evening so technically not 'stolen' any time from her employers at all. I am not trying to down play her crime - my issue is that 'gross misconduct' seems extreme ....

[Hero1callylost]

If she thinks it's extreme she needs to follow the appeals procedure.

[Whatthefucknameisntalreadytake]

You need to get over that. Lying to your employer nearly always counts as gross misconduct, no matter what the lie. It's because employers need to be able to trust their employees.

[SmokingGun]

It is gross misconduct, she lied about her working hours. I have recently completed a speed awareness course and had to book 7 weeks in advance. I believe you have to complete the course within 4 months so it's not like she couldn't have booked an AL day. I can't see how it isn't gross misconduct? Part of wfh is trust, your daughter wasn't trust worthy in this situation and therefore an employer could assume she is untrustworthy in other areas

[bloodyteenagers]

She lied to her employers.
It's a sackable offense.
companies have contracts signed by the employee stating what constitutes as gross misconduct.

In future she needs to be honest with employers and she needs to stop speeding.

[CycleChic]

She's "stolen" half a day (or are her days only 4 hours long? )
In my industry, there are jobs for graduates /people with less than a year of experience that aren't a graduate training scheme, just jobs. she might find it easier to land one of those as competition isnt quite as cut throat as for "training schemes ". I hope she knows now to (a) not speed and (b) not lie about anything!

[bloodyteenagers]

Oh and how didn't she know the
Course was on a work day.
There's notice given for the date. She should be intelligent enough
To check dates either try and rebook a different date or take unpaid leave/annual leave.

And 4 hours in the evening does not cover a full working day.

[PurpleHairAndPearls]

I had this with a drink driving colleague who also misled employers about court appearance (called in sick iirc) and was found out.

Unfortunately your DD has lied to them, with only five months service, and has shown them that she cannot be trusted.

Harsh but, IMO, fair and it will surely be a lesson learnt. You are being a bit over dramatic with the "shelf stacking" and that in itself, is a nasty comment.

[LIZS]

Within 2 years' service they don't actually have to give a reason. Did she get paid any notice?

[rubyslippers]

Why did she lie?

There was no need - a day of leave would have covered it?

As PPs had said, once trust is gone that's it

Being caught speeding twice in five months is also a lot

she should chalk it up to a massive lesson learnt

[OllyBJolly]

Firstly, it was gross misconduct. No question. Don't say anything to her that implies she was hard done to. What she did was very wrong.

Secondly, it's not the end of the world. She obviously has some great talents to land a job like that in the first place. The reference issue is a setback; it's not fatal. She wants to get her cv filled up with valuable experience and temping is a good way to go. As a pp said, in a few years 5 months will be irrelevant.

[Muddlewitch]

I agree that it might be worth her taking a lower scale job for a while to get a good reference, and then trying after a year or so to get back into the kind of role she has lost. Or even volunteering depending on her circumstances.

Also agree with PPs that have said a five month job can be 'lost' on your cv after a while, if not straight away, depending on the industry and how likely it is that other companies will know about it through word of mouth. I have done temporary and second jobs that are not in my field and leave them off of my CV.

I think in a nutshell, she hasn't lost everything but probably needs to accept that she has set herself back a bit and it might take a couple of years to get back to the sort of position she has been in. In the course of a whole career that isn't that long though.

[sooperdooper]

It was a very silly error of judgement on her behalf, as she had a company car I think the authorities may inform the company on speeding fines because she's not the registered owner of the vehicle - so they were probably waiting for her to own up, rather than dig herself into a hole about it

However, I've never seen an application form that asks specifically if you've ever been dismissed from a job - I think she's best off saying she was travelling it similar for the 5 months when she applies for new roles and just putting it down to experience

[Muddlewitch]

Meant to add and definitely if asked directly about it by any future employer she needs to be honest. If she is anything less than honest they won't believe she has learnt her lesson at all.

[NotJustaPotforSoup]

Thank goodness she got caught out on her loose grip on the truth and facing up to consequences now, tbh, because I think we've all worked with people who didn't learn that lesson and it's a nightmare.

She could just expunge it from her cv, but I'm not sure that isn't just compounding her mendacity.

[Bubblesinthesummer]

She had already worked an extra 4 hours that evening so technically not 'stolen' any time from her employers at all. I am not trying to down play her crime - my issue is that 'gross misconduct' seems extreme ....

Yes she has and you are.

It is a hard lesson to learn but gross misconduct is certainly not extreme in these circumstances. She has lied more than once a swell as being paid for working when she wasn't there.

There will also have been a breakdown in trust between her and her employer.

Of course it isn't the end of her career but saying things like the dismissal was was extreme is dismissing the seriousness of what she has done.

[LavenderLeigh]

She had already worked an extra 4 hours that evening so technically not 'stolen' any time from her employers at all. I am not trying to down play her crime - my issue is that 'gross misconduct' seems extreme

You definitely are trying very hard to downplay this.

Doing four hours of "extra" work (was this unpaid, overtime or flexi credit?) at night is not equivalent to a full working day. She has effectively stolen at least 3 hours from her employer.

The act of claiming pay for hours not worked, not being available for work during normal working hours and the lying to the employer are ample reason for gross misconduct because they show she has behaved in an untrustworthy fashion. Each one, on its own is a serious misdemeanour. The combination, plus the two speeding tickets (which she was presumably trying to hide by doing the course) mean that dismissal for gross misconduct was pretty inevitable.

trying to pretend she's been hard done by isn,t going to cut any mustard. I wouldn't advice trying to bluff through any questions at interviews, BTW. A decent interviewer will have already highlighted this as an area for further investigation and will be asking probing questions. They may even have had an off the record chat with her previous employer.

[LIZS]

If the job required interaction with other people there would have been a missing 4 hours during the working day while she was inexplicably uncontactable. Without prior agreement that could impact on the productivity of others and possible income.

[Blu]

I do have sympathy, Op, she is in a horrible situation and I'm sure she is incredibly upset with herself.

But honestly, if you are to help her, you (and she) need to understand that from the pov of the vast majority of employers, this IS gross Misconduct, and she hasn't been treated in an extreme way at all. especially as 5 months into the job she was probably still on probation.

I hope she can find a new job asap and make a fresh start.

[WeAllHaveWings]

Gross misconduct is behaviour, on the part of an employee, which is so bad that it destroys the employer/employee relationship, and merits instant dismissal without notice or pay in lieu of notice.

She was trusted to work from home she broke that trust. She was trusted to tell the truth and she directly lied to cover up. I'm surprised anyone would believe it an unfair or harsh result for a 25 year old adult in a responsible job. You will do her no favours by voicing that opinion.

Whether she resigns herself to a life of "shelf stacking" (your words) or not is now entirely up to her. I've seen a few people sacked for much worse gross misconduct continue successfully with their careers.