anyone want to join me in grumble about the quality of other people's written work

[hatwoman]

quality of language, analysis, strategy all up for discussion. Blaming A levels, universities, your own work-place training all invited. Awarding of points out of 10 particularly enouraged. I had to spend all sodding day today reading something for publication that I seriously would give about 3/10. just. it was appalling. record sentence (yes I took to counting, it was that bad) was 63 words long. yep. SIXTY-THREE. and, in case you missed it, this is for EXTERNAL PUBLICATION.

[MrsBadger]

unlikely he will be, somuchtobits, and he'll see those infuriatingly incorrect supermarket signs saying '10 items or less' every week. Best to get it in early...

[fortyplus]

drosophila - 'Eats, shoots and leaves' would be a very good start - and it's funny.

[clerkKent]

MrsB if you look at the baskets of the people in that queue, you will see that they can't count to 10 and therefore the sign is appropriate .

btw Winston Churchill attributed his good English to being kept back 3 years in the same class and learning the rules of English grammar very thoroughly. He came up with "terminological inexactitude", "that is something up with which I will not put", "Never in the field of human conflict.." etc

[drosophila]

I read a lot of books. Before kids I would read at least one a week and yet I still can't spell very well. My visual memory must be crap.

[fortyplus]

drosophila - both my kids read a lot. ds1 had a spelling age of 8yrs 2 mnths when he was 11 - it drives me NUTS! But he's well above average at Maths, Science & Tech. On the other hand ds2's writing & spelling is excellent. I can spell - but my dh who has Science Degree from Durham is RUBBISH. He can't even spell simple words like 'raisins'. So my theory is that being able to spell must be influenced by some genetic factors.

[mamama]

Totally agree, fortyplus - I've always just been able to spell (v. poor typing though & still get confused with practise & practice).

H has a science PhD, writes amazing papers & poetry yet cannot spell anything!

Must be genetic!

[drosophila]

My Dad couldn't spell either.

[fortyplus]

mamama - practice & practise are easy to remember just so long as you can remember how to spell 'Driving Licence'. Licence & license follow the same rules - 'c' for the noun, 's' for the verb. So if you remember that your Driving Licence is a 'thing' then it follows that you do some 'practice' - a noun, but when you do it you are 'practising' (verb).

Or maybe I've just confused you even more?

[fortyplus]

...and of course I apologise to our friends on the other side of the Atlantic, who follow different rules!

[drosophila]

I read ideas like this to help us remember rules and I just can't seem to commit them to memory. It's not that I don't think it's important it's just a blind spot. Rhymes do help me remember things like 'i before e except after c' but 'c' for a noun and 's' for a verb really do go in one ear and out the other.

[fortyplus]

Have just corrected grammar on BBC Radio 4's thread re: MRSA infection in babies. oes that make me a sad git?

[fortyplus]

Thank you, jura

[eefs]

bear with me shudder

[mamama]

Yay! Correcting the BBC - that's fab, fortyplus.

Thanks for the help with c for a noun & s for a verb. I'm like drosophila though, I know the rules (I always use advice/ advise) but I can never remember them when I need to! Drives my mother mad that I always have the wrong form of practise written!

[fortyplus]

Was that a good shudder or a bad one?

[KathyMCMLXXII]

Damn, missed this thread! A relevant anecdote, though:
my dh's work (a uni maths dept) was advertising for a new admissions secretary and they were told by the university personnel dept that they were not allowed to specify a good standard of written and spoken English in the job description because it would be discriminatory - WTF??

[fortyplus]

Don't think thread had died just yet - I'm sure there are a few more gems out there...

[mamama]

Kathy

[drosophila]

Mamama what can we do? I'm going to buy one of the books recommended here and hope it sinks in eventually. I had a very scary teacher in primary school who would hit us if we used 'there' and 'their' incorrectly. I have always remembered the difference as a result. Recently though I have noticed that I have used it incorrectly. It is usually if I am in a creative mood and the ideas are flowing. It seems that even rules that were beaten into me get forgotten when the juices are flowing. I am sure it's something to do with different sides of the brain taking priority.

[miggy]

We employ some 16-18 yr old school leavers with a reasonable turnover ie reasonable sample. The vast majority cannot spell and their handwriting is terrible. I am not talking about complicated words, just things like "write" spelt as "wright", very basic stuff. These are all kids with at least 5 gcse grades, usually more. Some of our work experience kids are predicted 3 grade A A levels and still cannot spell.
Shameful.
(actually worst thing is they cant make a decent cup of coffee either )

[mamama]

Drosophila - you have a good point about spelling not being priority when you are actually being creative. That is why, when I get my kids (I'm a teacher) to write anything, we always stop with 5 mins to spare and they use that time to go back and check their spellings. It's amazing how many of them say "Oh, Miss, I can't believe I put where instead of were!" I always tell them that spelling errors don't matter as long as you go back and correct them. If often helps them to swap with someone else - it's always easier to see someone else's mistakes than your own, isn't it? Hence me being on this thread

[drosophila]

Glad you don't beat them for poor spelling . It shocks me when I think how bad my old teacher was. I was scared witless of her. My Dad was taught by her mother and she was even worse but that was in the 1930s in very rural Ireland. Both my Mum and Dad could tell stories of children who found it difficult to learn being beaten really really badly with a stick/rod.

By the time we went to school it was usually a hand or a ruler that was used unless you went to a Christian Brother school.