anyone want to join me in grumble about the quality of other people's written work

[hatwoman]

quality of language, analysis, strategy all up for discussion. Blaming A levels, universities, your own work-place training all invited. Awarding of points out of 10 particularly enouraged. I had to spend all sodding day today reading something for publication that I seriously would give about 3/10. just. it was appalling. record sentence (yes I took to counting, it was that bad) was 63 words long. yep. SIXTY-THREE. and, in case you missed it, this is for EXTERNAL PUBLICATION.

[Tinker]

LOL Dros

Isn't "The management committee have attended .... " correct though? . I mean, there is only one management committee.

And isn't the split infinitive one of those grammar issue that isn't really an issue? There is actually no problem in splitting an infinitive.

[fortyplus]

I AM HYPERVENTILATING!

Have just driven in to work past an official Herts Highways sign informing me that a road will be closed on Sunday due to a Rememberance Day Service.

Had to share that with you, fellow pedants!

[fortyplus]

Tinker - only one committee so should be 'has' attended

[comebacksummer]

exactly.. so therefore it HAS, they HAVE....

sorry, I can't help joining these rants.. and it does make me laugh that we're all ranting about correct grammAr, spelling, sentEnce structure etc and yet there are many posts on this thread with exactly those mistakes on them; we moan about the younger generation's laziness and the negative impact of 'text-language' on apostrophes and spelling, but when it comes to it, we all type quickly and make unforced errors on mumsnet just as they do in other circumstances....

[comebacksummer]

sorry fortyplus, crossed post- I agree with you

[comebacksummer]

Another lovely one yesterday: Colchester Zoo invites you to its 'Chrstimas celebrations' on all the signs around the Zoo.. good grief...mind you, at least 'celebrations' was correct!

[fortyplus]

...and getting uptight about split infinitives is dependent on circumstances - I don't mind someone using one in an informal conversation, but it irritates me if I see one in written matter or hear one on the Beeb.

[comebacksummer]

Don't you find that the BBC News broadcasts are becoming more like tabloid journalism every day, though? I think that the standard of English and the content of their reports are being dumbed down; this is going to become the 'norm'. ( And by the way, 'every day' is another one of my bugbears...Nick Junior has xxx on 'everyday' which is incorrect; it means 'commonplace' if it's one word.. aaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[somethingunderthebedisdrooling]

the whole business of never splitting an infinitive has its roots in Latin. it is impossible to split infinitives in the Romance languages and being that at one time English speakers doggedly imitated anything Latin, one theory is that a pedantry of never splitting an infinitive in English developed out of the dominance of Latin in educated circles. Hence it became a mark of a 'good education'.

[Ellbell]

'Different to', as opposed to 'different from' bugs me too, but I think it is becoming acceptable nowadays (always heard on the BBC, etc.).

Not sure about other modern languages, but this is an issue in Italian too. There were some manifestos published in, I think, 2000 criticising the effects of globalisation and the increasing failure of young people to read 'the classics' on the development of the Italian language. But in Italy you have to be a bit careful. One of the features of the Fascist regime was intense linguistic conservatism (banning of foreign words, etc.) and no-one wants to be compared to Mussolini!

[Ellbell]

'Different to', as opposed to 'different from' bugs me too, but I think it is becoming acceptable nowadays (always heard on the BBC, etc.).

Not sure about other modern languages, but this is an issue in Italian too. There were some manifestos published in, I think, 2000 criticising the effects of globalisation and the increasing failure of young people to read 'the classics' on the development of the Italian language. But in Italy you have to be a bit careful. One of the features of the Fascist regime was intense linguistic conservatism (banning of foreign words, etc.) and no-one wants to be compared to Mussolini!

[Ellbell]

'Different to', as opposed to 'different from' bugs me too, but I think it is becoming acceptable nowadays (always heard on the BBC, etc.).

Not sure about other modern languages, but this is an issue in Italian too. There were some manifestos published in, I think, 2000 criticising the effects of globalisation and the increasing failure of young people to read 'the classics' on the development of the Italian language. But in Italy you have to be a bit careful. One of the features of the Fascist regime was intense linguistic conservatism (banning of foreign words, etc.) and no-one wants to be compared to Mussolini!

[Ellbell]

WTF happened there? Sorry people!

And talking of stations. Does anyone know why (I may get this the wrong way round - haven't travelled that way for a while) Earl's Court has an apostrophe but Barons Court doesn't?

[Tinker]

What a div! I knew management committee was singular but didn't read it properly

But, back to split infinitive - yes, believe it's to do with the Latin roots and it's one these rules grammar pendants get their knickers in a knot about but isn't, strictly, incorrect.

[fortyplus]

Interesting point re: split infinitives - I wouldn't have thought of myself as anally retentive, but maybe I need ti lighten up a bit. (Note informal use of slang term)

[fortyplus]

...an spell words of one syllable correctly! to

[fortyplus]

...and!!! GOOD GRIEF! I blame the keyboard!

[drosophila]

Pedants, is there a book you would recommend to those of us with bind spots?

Sister Isadore put the fear of God in me but I still can't remember f**k all from her lessons. I must be traumatised. I do remember you should always use a capital when you say 'He' in the middle of a sentence and you are referring to God. Does that apply if you don't believe in God?

I currently work with loads of Oxbridge types and I fear they may be laughing at some of my errors that I don't even know I am making.

Does anyone think that our kids are more creative as a result of not getting hung up on rules?

[WideWebWitch]

Elbell, that Earls Courts Barons Court thing was in Notes and Queries once, hang on, will see if I can find it

[WideWebWitch]

not the one I wasd thinking of but there's some small explanation here

[mamama]

Drosophila, I can't recommend this book enough! It is a Ladybird book meant for 5 - 8 year olds but explains everything very clearly and was recommended to us when we did our teacher training . I have to say, it is the most simply explained grammar book ever and covers most of what you need to know!

[SoMuchToBits]

wheresthehamster - you use "fewer" if you are describing countable objects (e.g.oranges, people, snowflakes) and "less" if you are describing something which is not countable(e.g. water, sugar, snow).

I have made sure my 5 year old ds knows this already, as I am not at all sure he will be taught it at school.