Asked unlawful Q in interview - what next?

[sybilfaulty]

Hi there

I was interviewed on Wed for an internal promotion, for which I submitted an application, did a presentation and then was asked questions. The first 2 bits went fine, but the first question after the presentation rather threw me.

I had mentioned in my presentation that I was flexible (by taking on projects etc etc) and had mentioned in my application that as I worked PT and flexibly (some of my work is done at weekends) I was very organised etc. I did not mention my children (I have 3, aged 2, 3 and 5, all of which I have had with this employer). However, the first Q was "given that the job may require you to work some evenings / weekends, how will you deal with this, given your other responsibilites?" She may have said other commitments, but the gist was clear. I said that I could always organise childcare but needed notice. The HR person was squirming by this point.

I thought it was unlawful to ask about childcare arrangements in interview. Other candidates have since been asked about flexibility but not in relation to their other responsibilities (as hardly any of them have small children). If I raise this, what is likely to happen in terms of the interview? I feel a bit upset and angry that the first question was about my domestic arrangements rather than my capability and suitability as a lawyer (oh the irony!)

Any comments / suggestions gratefully received.

Many thanks

Thanks Flowery. I am a family lawyer not an employment one. Most of the other people don't have small children or indeed any.

If I said I objected to the Q, what would happen then?

I am quite defensive about it, as it was not in the context of my presentation, and they only asked others about it because they had asked me. everyone up for the role already works some eves/ weekends. I feel singled out as I have childen and they don't.

You shouldn't feel singled out if they asked everyone.

You can say you object to the question but if they asked it of everyone you are going to risk sounding a bit over-sensitive. You're going to have to explain why exactly you objected, given it was relevant to the requirements of the job.

I imagine if you do complain they will ask how you would have preferred the question to be phrased and will say they'll take it on board in future.

It sounds to me that the problem here is not so much sexual discrimination as discrimination based on their prior knowledge of you as a current employee.

The wording 'given your other responsibilities' makes it clear they are considering issues that (presumably) weren't in your application. And they clearly asked the question at a different time for you than for the other interviewees.

Were the other interviewees male? I wonder if they'd have asked the same question of a man who was a current employee who they knew had other commitments?

I do think that they are within their rights to ask a similar question, (How will you manage the flexible/weekend parts of the job?) but it should have been presented in the same way to all interviewees.

You really are like a dog with a bone. So what if they asked the question first? So what if it wasn't 'in context' of your presentation? Just - so what?

It is a perfectly reasonable question to ask if you have the flexibility to work evenings due to other responsibilities.

Did other people get interviewed. Were they asked about their arrangements. this would be the key.

You obviously have picked up on something as you detected squirming from HR.

Do you really want to work for them? If so you might have to be pragmatic and suck it up. You could after the process have a quiet work with HR, if your HR are any good that is, and tell them resent the line of questioning.

As someone who has recruited many people, I can see where you are coming from. If this is the first question that you had to field then it would seem strange for me. They should be questioning you about your capability. They have to assume you knew the requirements of the role, as otherwise why would you put yourself forward for the role. They could also reiterate the requirements at the end of the role, mainly as housekeeping. Does that make sense?

Were you questioned on how your do the role, in terms of performance??

I'd say that in your experience of being a lawyer you must be used to making judgements and being able to interpret a line of questioning.

Did all the other interviewees follow you? Were you the first to be interviewed.

If you don't get the job and you think it's because you have children, that's something else, and if in that case you want to complain or take it further, then the way you felt this question came across could be part of your supporting information.

Forasong and Flowery, thank you for your helpful input. I am about to do the kids' tea but will respond later.

Thanks for your help. I really value your views .

My spelling was terrible though

Kids now in bed. Hurray!

There have been problems in my place in the past with people being interviewed in strange ways - for example, only being asked Qs about the presentation (which you submit about 2 days before) and no Qs common to all candidates. I understand that after comments they are now seeking to address this.

At the start of the interview, the chair said that the interview format would be my presentation, any Qs from the panel (of 6) on said presentation, then some other Qs from them before I had the opportunity to ask my questions. With this in mind, I launched in and presented whilst they wrote notes. No interruptions. I was then invited to sit down and the chair thanked me for presentation and asked the panel if anyone had any points on which they would like clarification, expansion etc. At this point, my colleague asked her question about my "other responsibilities". I hadn't mentioned them at all. That is what made it seem weird to be honest. If it had been asked in the context of general questions, I wouldn't have been so concerned.

#I appreciate that flexibility is required but it was completely out of context. I was also expecting the questions to be about clarifying things raised in my presentation and I hadn't raised evening / weekend working at all (except insofar as I had managed various projects which happened to take place at the weekend so they knew I could and have worked then). I too have interviewed people (external candidates only) and we have never asked anything about domestic circumstances (we don't usually know, though sometimes one can guess of course).

Thanks for reading this far. I was really just wondering what would happen if I raised the point. I am not out to make a big fuss, as I do work there anyway and will do for the foreseeable, but I do find it a bit odd that this was the first point raised after I had presented, which was not in line with anything I had said nor how the chair had said the interview had been planned.

I only know that in a couple of interviews after me (woman in her 40s without kids, openly gay man in his 30s) they were both asked if they were prepared to work flexibly as evening and weekend work might be required. Both looked a little confused (as they like me already do eves and weekends) but said yes. They were asked as part of the panel Qs by the HR woman at the end of the interview before the chance for their own questions.

I was the first interview of the cycle.

I imagine what happened is the woman with the flexibility question got a bit of a telling off, hence the change to ask the question at a more appropriate time.

Really really don't think you should attach too much importance to one of the panel asking what is on the face of it a perfectly reasonable question, but doing so at a bizarre time. It's a bit weird, I agree, but I don't think you can read massively sinister/discriminatory motives into it.

If you raise the point, what would you actually say? Would it just be about the fact that the question was out of context in terms of when in the interview it was asked? Or would you be saying they shouldn't have asked anyone? Genuine question, what point would you actually be raising?

Thanks Flowery.

All I would really be saying, I think, is that I was a little taken aback at being asked a Q about my family circumstances when I thought I was being asked about my presentation and why I was suitable for the job. I thought the timing was poor and the question inappropriate in the context, esp as a big thing had been made about how the interview would be structured.

I don't want to make a big thing of it, but I was made to feel like a mother when I went to the interview with my lawyer head on. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense, totally.

I think when you phrase as you have in your last post, it's worth raising in a 'just so you're aware' kind of way. Although I expect HR have made the person fully aware already..

You could mention it to HR in a no-big-deal way?

I suppose too that I feel people are down on mothers in our place as manjy of us are part time and / or work flexibly. I did diversity training a few years back when we all had to share our prejudices about various groups. One of my colleagues, under the heading "Working mothers" wrote "C**ts" !!!

I felt that she was against me and looking for a reason not to give me the job. This is entirely my perception and not based on anything she said of course but my mother status made me feel on the back foot.

No one has been given the job yet.

I know another man has applied. He has a 3 week old baby. I (genuinely) wonder what he was asked.

i would also be interested to know as i got asked 'what would your family think about taking 10 days trip abroad'

..if they're aything like my bunch, the answer is 'don't come back without a present' :)

Sorry just to be sure the person who wrote "C..ts" is not on the panel of six at all or a Hiring Manager. That is pretty horrific and I hope the trainer intervened, I mean diversity training should not make someone feel like shit.

It does seem strange to me that they did not launch into questions about your presentation. That would seem the most logical approach and most courteous tbh.

Especially if they were supposed to follow a structured interview. A structured interview would not normally allow such an ambiguous question.

I've sometime found resentment form other staff towards working mums, especially if you have part-time or flexible arrangements. There is often a perception that you have a perk that they don't. It is not nice. I have clocked it from other people moaning to me, assuming I would join in their prejudice perhaps because I worked very long hours and I did not have children, but I never had anything against flexible working.

You know your organisation best, but I would think about how the organisation really followed up on the diversity training or do they just pay lip service to the idea?

There probably is not a lot you can do. Raising a grievance if you are not successful probably will be very stressful.

Good luck and I hope you have a decent shot of getting the promotion.

Context is everything isn't it? You sounded over-defensive, over-sensitive and a bit paranoid in your first post. In the context you describe, although I think any kind of formal complaint would seem over-dramatic based purely on the facts, I do understand why you are unhappy about it and why you are a bit defensive about your working mother status.

The problem is as I said, based purely on the bare facts of this incident, you don't really have much of a complaint. It's just your perceptions which may or may not be true but cannot be substantiated. Very frustrating for you I agree.

Thank you very much for your ideas.

Forasong, we do a lot of training in our place to tick the "training" box on appraisals. Myers Briggs, Belbin, god knows what else, must have cost THOUSANDS and yet no one really uses what they have learnt beyond the actual session. Madness.

The trainer did not intervene. We explored the reasons why this colleague felt the way he did, but he was not alone and I felt rather cowed into saying very little, which is not like me. I don't go in for colleague bashing either, but many people in my place do.

Flowery - I think I am going to limit myself to a "for the future...." email to HR. I do understand why such questions are needed (and provided they are asked to all, not discriminatory) but it could have been better phrased and at a more relevant point in the interview. I will put my point calmly and in a non defensive way, I hope. I would still love to be there when they ask the man with the baby the same thing though, but obviously I'll never know.

Many thanks for taking the time for such considered and helpful responses. Hugely appreciated.

Cheers

I think it was a weird and unfair question raised at an inappropriate time.

Raising "other" responsibilities that had not been referred to in your presentation introduced a colleague's prior knowledge of your family circumstances into an interview, which is extremely unprofessional and arguably discriminatory.

The word "other" is key here - she introduced the idea that you had not just responsibilities, but "extra" responsibilities, the implication of which is that you were more burdened with responsibilities than is usual.

I don't blame you for being pissed off.

OP so it sounds as though, as you say, the training is just a tick box exercise, perhaps to cover the company so they can say staff have been offered diversity training.

If I was your HR I personally would have wanted to know if a training provider let a statement like that go, and why. Especially if others agreed with the statement.

I really hope the manager who said C**nts is not in a senior role.

I think we all know people who have had interview questions put toward them that were inappropriate. It does not make it right.

Sending an email is a good idea, perhaps frame it as a lessons learnt approach, and ofcourse send it after the selection process is complete.

I'm sure we would love to see you get the opportunity.

I hope you learnt something from the process and I suppose it is always good to have presentation experience.

I've dealt with some recruitment consultants who were sexist to me when I was looking for a role. I had to suck it up, as I was not in a position of power, being unemployed but then when I found a job I became the hirer I ofcourse never, ever used them and I warned others about them. Quite satisfying.

Sybil good on you for looking into whether this is inappropriate or not. I feel the more we accept this the less likely we are to get equality in the workplace. I am surprised by some of the comments against the OP here and wonder if they may actually be trolls. Possibly they didn't read the original post property and saw Sybil was talking about enquiring about the question. Good luck anyway Sybil.

i can't see what was wrong with the question.

you seem to believe it was about your children but they may have meant your other role teaching.

Penelope, I see what you are saying, but surely if they meant my teaching duties, the interviewer would have said "no, I was thinking of XYZ" when I gave my answer. In any event, the role is 50% teaching and 50% management, so the teaching can't impinge on the other as it's all timetabled.

Thank you for your post Vagola .

Sybil

It would have really pissed me off (maybe I too have chip on shoulder ). I think the main issue I would have with it is it being the very first question - suggests that this was in front of mind.

It is perfectly ok to ask how someone will manage if the requirement is for work out of normal hours if it's done in the right way as an opportunity to dispel idea that you might not be able to. But very easy when you're in the room to know the difference between when it's asked positively or negatively IYKWIM. Is the person who asked the question going to be your new boss? That might make me pause for thought in itself. Is it worth having a quiet word with the HR person before they make the decision? You could do it in a way that "you're sure she didn't mean it to come across like that but concerned could be open to question on equality grounds and wanted to re-emphasise that you - as now - will continue to be flexible if you were given the new role"

Best of luck.

yes, I can see why you were upset - coming at the end of your presentation it makes it seem as though all your "Why I'm right for the job" work was overshadowed by the fact you're a MOTHER