Anti-abortion acitvists do rather represent the worst of human beings,don't they?

[SolidGoldBrass]

Dishonest, ignorant, supersitious, woman-hating and sexually dysfunctional. What's not to despise?

If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one yourself. it's fair enough not to like abortion. It's not fair enough to actively involve yourself in removing other people's human rights for your own stupid malevolent faulty reasoning.

(Yes I am posting this and going to bed. I will be back tomorrow...)

To play devil's advocate to the 'if you don't approve of abortion, don't have one yourself' argument, you could say, 'if you don't approve of people beating children, don't beat your children.'

Abortion is complicated because there is a second person involved. Some people see that second person as a clump of unfeeling cells with no rights. Some people see it as a human life. Many people see it as something in between. This perspective is what shapes people's opinion.

The 'woman's body, woman's choice' argument is simplifying the debate down far too much because it assumes everyone sees the foetus as a part of the woman's body, like an appendix rather than as a separate being.

I agree with Carmen: I think the "my body, my choice" position quite unthinking and wildly over-simplistic.

I am a feminist, not sexually dysfunctional and an agnostic; but I still (honestly and having thought through both sides) believe that in most circumstances abortion is wrong and that it should be allowed in far far fewer circumstances than is currently the case. Further, I think that it is part of women's emancipation that we take responsibility for ourselves and our actions; and that includes contraception or making sure that one is in a position to nurture any child which one allows to be conceived.

Having said that, I do agree that there are, on the extreme end of the spectrum some thoroughly appalling people in the anti-abortion camp: they are mawkish about embryos but have no problem with the death penalty/bombing the hell out of babies in Afghanistan etc.. and are definitely woman-hating.

pointissima, I think your views are "wildly over-simplistic" tbh. By reducing the circumstances you are forcing women to have babies they don't want/can't have.

"I still believe that in most circumstances abortion is wrong and that it should be allowed in far far fewer circumstances than is currently the case"

So, what circumstances would you reduce it to?

"Further, I think that it is part of women's emancipation that we take responsibility for ourselves and our actions"

How can you take more responsibility in a situation where you are already using a condom & are on the mini pill?

The "abortions are allowed sometimes" group tend to come down to 'if it's your fault you are pregnant, no abortion for you'.

but beating children is not legal. And seen as widely despicable.

Abortion is legal. If you want this changed, then campaign against it in an appropriate manner. Do not shout at women going into abortion clinics, or taunt them with picture. Try to be a decent human being.

I never understand why some people take such a purient interest in the contents of my uterus. While I can see the "it's a life" argument, as far as I can see, that life is not viable until at least 23 weeks. Until that point, what I choose to do with my body is nobody's business but my own.

LadyintheRadiator I think some would say it was adoption!

what a horrible op. Says far more about the poster than anyone else.

Responding to the thread title, then yes. they are.

And I am thinking of those people that are part of the violent anti abortion movement, where a doctors life is worth nothing but a bullet.wiki here but google 'anti abortion violence to see what I mean.
And it's not just murders. this is a list of arsons and bombings by anti abortion protestors.

Free speech is one thing, but this is terrorism.

People like Life and others who believe in counselling and discussing options with pregnant women, even with an ulterior motive to stop any abortions, have nothing but respect from me, whether I agree with them or not.

Taking a wild stab at 'sexually dysfunctional' - if you are anti-abortion then, because all contraception is falliable, you can only have sex if you are willing for it to result in a pregnancy and then a child. Every time you did it you would have to make that decision.

Is that what you meant?

Agree with Carmen.

QT's point about terrorists brings to mind the old cliche "one man's terrorist is anothetr man's freedom fighter".
They do genuinely believe they are protecting vulnerable people who cannot protect themselves. Unlike adults who choose to work in abortion clinics or join the army. (Naturally disagree with the hatefilled and/or violent activists, but can't disagree with the principle that they can campaign for change in laws they don't agree with)

The older I get the more I move away from a pure prochoice position.

Yes, antichoice acitvists are sexually dysfunctional because they hate sex and despise women who have it.
It's not that much of a coincidence that many of the worst activists are physically repellent men, is it?
ANother reason to despise foetus worshippers for their dishonesty is they are not actually interested in the wellbeing of babies or children you never get them campaigning for action on child poverty, or even for better maternity care in general (don't forget the biggest risk for PG women is lack of access to good maternity care) - their whole agenda is to see women punished for having sex.

almost totally agree with OP (apart from the sexually dysfuctional bit, not sure I follow that).

my favourite example of anti abortionists at work was a group of protestors in the Deep South (where I was working at the time), who had a placard held up by a couple of toddlers which said 'every baby you abort is an addition to satan's army!'. Which makes me think satan will be quite an easy foe to overcome, surrounded by embryos and foetuses (foeti?).

I strongly feel that it should be the choice of the woman - and the right of the woman - to have a safe abortion. Counselling should be involved, as I have yet to meet anyone who had an abortion and was unaffected by it.

Quality time, that's aterrifying list - notice it's predominantly men committing the crime too? Like I've heard elsewhere, it should be 'no uterus, no comment'

"While I can see the "it's a life" argument, as far as I can see, that life is not viable until at least 23 weeks."

But that's the crux of it. It all comes down to how you view that exact point. And if you view it as life from conception then it makes a hell of a difference to how you view abortion.

I am reluctantly pro choice. I do view it as life from day one and I can't envisage any circumstances when I would have an abortion (although am realistic enough to realise that you never know what is round the corner). I hate the thought of anyone else doing it, but I do accept that what other people do is none of my business. I don't have to like it but I certainly wouldn't target anyone considering it and would never try to influence anyone going through it.

I am pro-choice though I recognise that it's a very difficult topic and I totally understand why. However, I'm not sure this OP helps and the 'sexually dysfunctional' bit is still wrong, even after explanation - you can claim that they have unhealthy attitudes to sex but 'sexually dysfunctional would surely refer to their own sexual lives, and experiences not their wish to control those of others. I know this may seem picky, but the whole thing here seems based on ad hominem. I would rather argue the rational need for terminations to be available, not make individual attacks on those who are anti-termination.

kveta, I was unaffected by mine. I felt only relief when I was no longer pregnant.

My problems stemmed from being pregnant & I refused to have sex with dh for 5 months because I was petrified of getting pregnant again. I developed anxiety around it & that has only just passed, over 18mths on.

They are every bit as loony and dysfunctional as the animal rights activists who would happily firebomb someone's house and kill their children as a protest against vivisection.

Every woman should have the right to make that choice, for any reason.

Kveta, may I raise my hand here and say I've had an abortion and honestly, the only emotional response I had was one of relief. I have never ever regretted it.

The "abortion harms women as well as babies" propoganda needs to be addressed as well.

"I do view it as life from day one and I can't envisage any circumstances when I would have an abortion"

You see, my girls I viewed as a life as soon as I saw those 2 lines. My third pregnancy was nothing but something I had to get out of me. I didn't see it as a baby at all.

I could never envisage any circumstances where I would have a termination either, until the day I found out I was pregnant with unwanted #3. Then suddenly, there was no choice to be made.